Bills fans passionate about Peters trade: Part 2
The AFC East mailbag continues to burst at its virtual burlap seams with reaction to the controversial Jason Peters trade.
Peters easily has generated more responses than any other AFC East mailbag topic, including the Terrell Owens signing and the Brett Favre trade.
The Buffalo Bills dealt their two-time Pro Bowl left tackle to the Philadelphia Eagles for the 28th overall selection and a fourth-round pick in this year's draft and a 2010 pick that's believed to be a sixth-rounder.
Bills fans don't know whether to be incensed they lot such a talented player or relieved the contract dispute is over. The Eagles forked over $53 million in new money, giving Peters a six-year deal worth $60 million.
For the second time in four days, I'm dumping out the mailbag so you can read their unedited feelings. Again, thanks to the folks at Two Bills Drive for their submissions.
Vinny from Parts Unknown writes: I hate the trade, Tim. I will not subscribe to other Bills fans' "fantasy hopes" that Peters will now end up being a fat lazy bust in Philly. I believe that Peters is a special athlete that has not even played his best football yet. A two time Pro Bowl LT that is only 26 or 27 years old, and will now anchor the Eagles OL for the forseeable future. To me, this has to be the worst trade the Bills have made since they shipped Lamonica to Oakland. Classic Ralph Wilson pulling in the purse strings at the very worst time.
William in Vestal, N.Y., writes: It was disappointing to lose Peters, who is probably the premier left tackle in the NFL. The agility of someone his size was remarkable. However, he never seemed committed to proving his worth or earning the hefty contract he demanded. He has the potential to be the best in the game but he's only shown that occasionally. Philadelphia has one or two good years left with McNabb and Peters was necessary to make sure their QB stays healthy. If that means mortgaging the future - okay. Andy Reid probably won't stay much beyond that anyway. Should the Bills have ponied up the dough for Peters? Ask yourself, "Would the Steelers or the Patriots empty the vault to keep a player of that caliber?" I don't think so, and no organization is better managed than either of those.
John in Buffalo writes: I think the Bills did the right thing, what Jason did last year was horrible, it slapped the Bills right in the face, how could you reward a player with a 53 million dollar extension after he acts like that. The four year extension is worth roughly 13.25 a year, Jason Peters is being paid like a top flight quarterback, Big Ben's deal in Pittsburgh is about 12.75 million and he has won superbowls!! Its a joke, as a Bills fan I will take the first round pick.
Murt in New York writes: BILLS FAN THERAPY - PETERS TRADE This offseason has been a real wakeup call for me. Now, more so than ever, I have realized that the Buffalo Bills will always put business before the long-term success of the team. I like everyone else, thought the signing of TO was the franchise getting serious about winning. With the Jason Peters trade going down, I have come to realize that this was clearly just a marketing stunt by Russ Brandon to make up ground on the backlash of retaining Jauron. I realize we are a small-market team and cannot compete for titles year in-year out, but I really truly believe that this organization has no long-term plans for winning. Bills fans are as die-hard as they come. The reason our season tickets sales have been so strong the last couple of years hasn't been because of what the team has done on the field, it is because all of us fans feel it is our duty to put up the money to support the team lest they move. It makes me sick to think that the front office takes advantage of our loyalty by making small cosmetic short-terms changes instead of more viable sustainable solutions (i.e. locking up a pro-bowl LT in his prime). If Peters was a UFA from another team this off-season, we would have had to pay top dollar to even get him to visit Buffalo (See Derrick Dockery signing). I could sit here, and make empty threats about boycotting all future games, but we all know this wouldn't be true because I am, and always will be a Buffalo Bills fan.
Pat in Buffalo writes: I think pride got the best of the Bills' front office in this situation. It will be difficult for an emerging QB like Edwards to develop while getting blindsided by the pass rush.
Andy in Albany, N.Y., writes: I think the Jason Peters trade was the right move for the Bills. Peters clearly wasn't acting like a team player and despite his talent, the Bills needed to part ways with someone who wasn't motivated. I'm upset that they lose a talented tackle, but I'm glad the whole soap opera is overwith.
Rich in Pittsburgh writes: If I have to sum up the whole Peters situation I would label it disappointment and hope. Disappointment that Jason feels like holding out, not being a part of the team and focusing on your contract instead of protecting your QB. Hope for the future - that guys can step up and someone like a Demetrius Bell develops and finish the story Peters started.
Tony from Parts Unknown writes: While I hate to see a player of his caliber go, even if the Bills gave him what he wanted, my impression is that he would holdout every time another left tackle got a bigger and better contract. So while I cannot fault the Bills front office for trading him, I am dissapointed in what they got for him, as I think they could have done better. The Bills front office has once again proven that like the coaching staff they are often overmatched and unprepared.
Tim in Orlando, Fla., writes: Although many 'analysts' thus far have lampooned Buffalo for the trade, I think Buffalo made out as good as they could for two reasons: 1. Peters is a very talented tackle but he is NOT the best tackle in the NFL because he lacked dedication to the Bills and as a result his game suffered. He gave up many critical sacks last year off the edge on one on one matchups. Number 2 and I think most important is this - Trent is a timing quarterback who is still learning pocket presence. Marshawn is a bruiser still learning to run with patience behind his blockers. The Bills are building their offense around the talents of these two and thus their scheme is about timing and effective zone blocking. I dont think Peters ever fit that type of tackle role effectively and so the Bills never valued the whole Peter's package at what he and his agent thought were his market value - especially when you throw in the holdouts. I think Philly is a good fit for Peters though because McNabb has excellent pocket awareness and can improvise a bit. So who got the better of the trade? It depends on what kind of value Buffalo gets out of the picks they received but the one victory for the Bills right away is control of what they have going into training camp and the season. With Peters on board they never knew where they were with him. The Eagles will be the one's holdin
g their breath a bit waiting to see what they have in this guy given the big contract.
Brendan in New York writes: Jason Peters is quite possibly the most physically gifted offensive lineman in football today. But he's consistently showed poor judgement and a lazy side (remember, he left Arkansas a year early even though he wasn't projected as a high draft pick, and wound up undrafted) that made the Bills front office as well as many fans wary of giving him the huge contract he was looking for. Only time will tell whether it was the right move, but for a team that can't afford to spend big money on a question mark like Peters, it was the only move.
Jonathan from Rochester, N.Y., writes: As a Bills fan I'd like to believe that the Eagles got hosed but we definitely won't know til three years from now. Since his play was declining over the past couple of years we'll see if his heart is really in the game or whether he'll just grab his money and lounge. He's also been a horrible teammate. Last year he put his own wants over the teams by holding out. If last years Jason Peters arrives in Philly then the Bills have made out like bandits. Finally, it's telling that even though a few teams were interested in him Philly was the only one to step up and offer him the contract he wanted and some draft picks. That says a lot IMO.
Jason in Depew, N.Y., writes: Losing Jason Peters is at best a tragedy, at worst professional negligence of the highest order. Yet some fans are actually glad he?s gone and salute the Bills for moving him. It is one thing for the team to make a bad decision; it is quite another for the fans of the team to applaud malfeasance. Jason Peters is the finest athlete to play LT. The Bills? blocking schemes asked Peters to block the opponent?s best pass rusher each week without help. He?s also still new at the position, with the potential to grow into a Hall of Fame caliber talent. Yet, many of the fans somehow manage to ignore all of this, preferring instead to tout some flawed and unofficial sack statistic and complain about his attitude. Peters never wanted out of Buffalo (he was shocked to be traded). All he wanted was to be paid commensurate to his value. With the Bills' below the salary cap, there was no constraint to making this happen. This was a self-inflicted would. The trade degrades the quality of the roster and -- when coupled with the other O-line reshuffling -- all but assures a record 10th straight year out of the playoffs. What exactly are the fans celebrating?
Randy in Jacksonville, Fla., writes: Tim,as a long-standing Bills fan since the late '60's I have never felt so bewildered by the management of the franchise as I do now. We are coming off of a season of tremendous disappointment in the wake of a 9 year playoff void. We failed to win a single game in our division which stands as unquestionable proof of our inadequate talent base. Yet, in a league where even average, young left tackles rarely hit the free agent market, our management feels we will somehow be "better" by trading away perhaps the most talented player on one of our most under achieving units for years. We continue to self-inflict wounds yearly by letting talent walk away, and assure ourselves of at best standing pat by having to fill those same holes every year in the draft. As a very loyal fan it becomes increasingly hard to see any long term vision for the Bills by this front office. The Peters trade is another example of "Bills-Vision", where others see the value of our own players ( e.g. Pat Williams, Winfield, and even Jim Leonard), yet our front office continues down this blind path. They are running this current Bills club much like our current government; they address the deficiency of talent on the roster by creating a larger deficit! Then while the other AFC East clubs continue to move forward, the Bills fans get penalized further by witnessing a divisional home game being outsourced to Canada. Bills football is becoming the "Post office" of the NFL; we are paying more for less and less!
Dave in Buffalo writes: No, I don't think the Bills got ripped off in the Peter's trade. Only real wish is Russ Brandon waited until next week and may have gotten the earlier 1st round pick. As for Peter's, good riddance. He may have the physical tools to be the best LT in NFL history, but his mental tools are semi-pro at best. Regardless of the fact he missed all of training camp last year, he gave up 11.5 sacks. No self-respecting all-pro LT would allow that to happen. Just shows he is all about the money, not about the team.
Gordon in Maryland writes: For an UDFA who was developed into a strong LT, Peters did little to show much appreciation for the team that gave him a shot. After receiving an extension previously, Peters selfishly decided to hold out with THREE years left on his contract. As a result, he showed up to camp slow and out of shape. He gave up around 12 sacks and disrupted team chemistry in what was by far his worst year as a pro. Then he has the gall to threaten to sit out yet again? That being said, I would think the Bills could have gotten the first of the Eagles' two first rounders for someone who lucked into a Pro Bowl slot.
Stephen from Parts Unknown writes: The Bills 2008 season summed up thus: "The 2008 Bills: Even our pro-bowler stinks." 2009 looks like this: "The 2009 Bills: Let's see how a young QB handles a revamped O-line and TO."
Doug in Clarence, N.Y., writes: The Peters trade sent the Buffalo Bills' best player off for a low first round pick - not adequate value. The Bills are not even likely to get a good rookie at 28. Also, the move leaves another huge hole in the O line. Brag about TO all you want but he will make no difference if the QB is continually knocked on his butt on every down. This is another example of how Ralph Wilson is looking to pocket every possible dollar without regard to attempting to field a winning team. The Bills will be extremely lucky to make 7-9 again, with 4-12 a much bigger possibility. Once again the Bills take another "bird in hand" player with talent and either let him walk or get minimal value to avoid paying a big NFL contract, making it impossible to ever build anything. I have never been more disgusted with this team in the more than 30 years of watching this team as a loyal fan. I think Ralph's end goal even beyond squeezing the last nickel out of this economically depressed area is to make the people of WNY so disgusted with the mismanagement of this team that everyone will be glad to finally see them go to Toronto, or wherever they end up going after Mr. Wilson passes on. I would like to be done with this team once and for all and am disgusted with myself that I have a need to check the Bills on the internet at least once a day for updates.
Kris in West Chester, Pa., writes: It has always sort of nagged at me how Jason peters was undrafted. He is obviously a physical specimen with ungodly athetic ability. Sure he played TE in college and would probably have to switch positions. Guys get drafted all the time who have that problem. Sure he got a 9 on his Wonderlic. Byron Hanspard was a 2nd rounder after getting a 0.0 in college and Brent Fullwood went 4th overall without being able to read. Yeah he had some minor legal stuff in college but guys get drafted all the time with that stuff. There had to be something more that kept teams from spending a 7th rounder on him, or signing him when Buffalo cut hime or the 3 months he was on the practice squad. I think he told us what it was in his interview today. If he can't give a better interview than that AFTER getting 60 mil
lion dollars I can't imagine what he sounded like at the pre-draft interviews. It speaks volumes to Peters' drive to imporve, or lack of it, that he had no idea how many sacks he'd given up or that he really didn't care when it was mentioned. I would bet that Orlando Pace and Walter Jones and Anthony Munoz (truly great tackles) can tell you about just about every sack they've EVER given up. Walter Jones was angry about his contract on an annual basis but he still showed up for work and dominated. Jason Peters is the ultimate tease. He has the ability to be otherworldly. The problem is that he thinks he already is and will likely never reach his potential because of it. Will he be good in Philly? Probably. Will he miss his share of games with nicks? Probably. Will he live up to the billing of the best left tackle in football? Probably not. If Jason thinks Buffalo was rough just wait until he has a bad game in Philly. The worst thing you can have on a team are expensive, underperforming malcontents. Say what you will about T.O. (it is all well deserved) but he shows up to play on Sundays and cares about winning as much as anyone. I wish Jason the best but unfortunately I think his best days ar ebehind him and from his press conference today it seems that he has his stamps and envelopes in stock has Operation Mail It In well underway. Some will deride the Bills for letting a supreme talent walk away. I applaud them. The Patriots wouldn't have put up with that and if there is any franchise to emulate right now it's them (sadly). You don't want to be here? Fine, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Buffalo made the best of a no win situation and got 3 picks in return for a player who was not going to play this year (or dog it again). You also rid yourself of an obvious attitude/locker room problem and sent a message to other potential whiners and malcontents. The teams that win are not always the most talented individuals. They are often the most dedicated hard working teams.
Kevin in Modesto, Calif., writes: Tim, I think this trade was a must for the Bills. The situation with Peters was not going to get better. I believe that they got a good deal given everything that went on. If what Marcellus Wiley said on Sportscenter was true about the locker room getting tired of the situation then the organization had NO choice but to get rid of him. What if Peters held out yet again, but for the entire season, his value would go down, and next year the Bills would have gotten far less in return. Thank You.
P.J. in Nashville writes: my take on Peters: I'm a lifeong Bills fan and grew up in WNY. I like the trade. Peters has huge potential and a lot of talent, but I question his desire, attitude and whether it's all about the money or not. I would rather have a less talented player with more heart anyday....someone that is going to work hard to be at his best, be a good teamate, play hurt because he want s to win and loves the game and not one who is thinking about his contract on every other play. The fact that we are getting 3 picks for Peters is icing on the cake to me.
Joe in Raleigh, N.C., writes: Tim, Thanks for the opportunity to provide reaction and thanks for your great work. Jim McNally built Jason Peters from scratch and made the comparison to Anthony Munoz, who McNally also coached. There is no denying Peters was a gifted athlete and the Bills will miss him. However, the Jason Peters on the field for the Bills last year was distracted and missing passion for the game. The press conference showed me that Peters would always lack effort and passion as a Bill. Trying to keep him was futile. So the team lost its best player -- but he didn't want to play for them. The Bills had to move Peters. The Bills got good value from a no win situation. If he pulls the lack of effort routine in Philly, the reaction he will get will make him wish he was back in Buffalo.
Corey in Williamsburg writes: Peters trade- It's a difficult pill to swallow because this is a guy the Bills groomed into an all-pro. Buffalo hasn't had a truly elite (elite= top 3 in the league) player at any position since the early 90's, and while Peters was lousy last year, he's certainly thought of as one of the top LT's in the league. That said, it's clear he didn't want to be in Buffalo, his miserable play last year- especially in the biggest moments- literally cost the Bills at least one game, and the team can now move forward without this massive distraction hanging over their heads. I'm not thrilled with the compensation, but I'll try to withhold judgment until I see what they do in the draft.
Peter from Parts Unknown writes: Jason Peters might have been a jerk, but he WAS our jerk. LT's don't grow on trees. If the Bills offered him the same contract he signed with the Eagles, do you think he would have signed it? If he would have, the Bills wouldn't have such a big hole to fill. The crap shoot of a player not playing to his contract is a worry for every player that gets signed for that money. I would have kept him. By the way, I enjoy your writing Peter
David in Buffalo: I feel if Jason had showed up to work last year during the summer and had a season like in 07 he would still be with the Bills and would have got at least 10 million a year. But he didn't show a commitment to the organization and they and some of his teammates lost faith in him. And rightly so I believe. He was under contract and they made him a nice offer I heard. Shame that it turned out this way because when on top of his game he is top 5 in the NFL. Seems to me he wanted out of Buffalo judging by who fast he signed his Eagles deal. Well he got what he wanted. The Bills got the short end of the stick because now they have to replace him and I think a better deal would have been the Eagles 21st pick and a 3rd rounder this year or even a player. But the Bills did the right thing even though they really did not want to give him up.
Mike in Miami writes: A frustrating move, to say the least. If the Bills target a LT with the 11th pick, as some would have it, then the front office has rid themselves of a headache in exchange for moving back 17 spots in the draft order-- which doesn't seem to be good business. The Bills seemed, at last, to be in a favorable position, draft-wise. For the first time in recent memory, they were entering a draft with fewer needs than they had impact draft positions. They seemed to be favorably positioned to draft a promising DE with pick 11, and the depth of talent in this year's TE and interior line classes gave them every possibility of drafting impact players at need positions in rounds 2 and 3. We're now relegated back to familiar territory-- another established veteran in the prime of his career is sent onward to greener pastures, and the Bills are left with more holes than a single draft-- no matter how brilliant-- could possibly hope to fill. Say what you will about Peters' play last season, it was no less questionable than Dick Jauron's coaching; and if continuity is as valuable as the front office claims, perhaps they should place a higher premium on securing their most talented veterans.
Lars in Chicago writes: After reading the things Peters said during his first Philly press conference, I'm thoroughly convinced that trading him was the right thing to do. Now that Peters is gone, the only players left on the roster from Tom Donahoe's final two drafts in Buffalo (2004/05) are Roscoe Parish and Lee Evans. In fact, only seven players remain from the previous regime: Eva
ns, Parish, the punter, the kicker, WR Josh Reed, and three defensive ends (Schobel, Kelsay, Denney). Defensive end has been identified as a "need" position, so each of the aforementioned could have numbered days in Buffalo, and Reed's play has been indispensable, but right on his heels is second year man Steve Johnson. Since Donahoe's been gone, the Bills administration has made it a point of targeting who they believe to be "high character guys." That might seem laughable now in light of our recent orgy of off season mischief, but there's no doubting the hard work and commitment to football demonstrated by each player who remains on the roster who was drafted, signed, or extended since Jauron arrived in 2006. The point is, if Peters' true attitude is in anyway reflected by the things he said in Philly--and I believe it is--then this Bills administration would have had little to no toleration for Jason Peters. Pepper in his ludicrous contract demands, the possibility of a standoff that might have lasted until November, and a Bills administration that clearly values a guy who's committed to the team, and the Peters trade is a bona fide no brainer.
Josh in St. Louis writes: If Jason Peters wanted the Bills to pay him $1 million per sack, then he should have converted to defensive end. By his 4th year into the league he was already looking for his 3rd NFL contract, and refused to show up because he didn't get it. I'd be stupid to think we don't have a huge void at left tackle left by Peters, but Peters coasted through 2008, and there was nothing to indicate anything would be different in 2009. As far as I can tell, the only one unhappy to see him leave Buffalo is Joey Porter.
Chip in Washington D.C. writes: Regarding the Jason Peters trade to Philadelphia. As a Bills fan, I was relieved to hear Peters was traded. While he was arguably the most talented player for the Bills, he was likely going to hold out again and become an even bigger distraction. The Bills were concerned about another PR nightmare with Peters holding out. The Bills have enough PR problems with a bad 2008 finish, off the field distractions with Marshawn Lynch & Donte Whitner. Not to mention the majority of fans are upset Dick Jauron was retained as head coach. The Bills, I believe, felt they had no choice but to trade him. Initially, Philly is the clear winner. They get an immediate starter at LT who has made the Pro Bowl. If he remains dedicated to the game he could dominate his position for the next 4 - 5 years. Philly has a huge investment in Peters -large contract ($60M) and the number of picks given up. It better work out for Philly or Buffalo is going to look very good getting rid of an undrafted free agent for picks and unloading a problem in the making. If the Bills draft smartly, turning the 1st and the 4th into starters, they could turn this bad situation into something positive.
Eric in London, Ontario, writes: Re: Peters trade... At first, I was frustrated - "What are they doing trading away a franchise LT?" But now, after watching videos of the sacks he gave up last year (be it 5.5 or 11.5), I recalled how poorly he played all year last year. In fact, when he wasn't in there, he was never missed. This might be the most damaging comment to make. The old saying goes something like, if you don't notice an OL-man, he must be doing something right. By that token, the fact that we noticed Peters a whole lot last year, he must have been doing a whole lot wrong. Reading and hearing Peters' comments today, also showed me that this is a guy I won't miss on my team. All in all, the Bills got great value for Peters, especially in lieu of the fact that it was widely known they might trade him, and the Eagles were the team that was most mentioned. Now, as long as the Bills can get a serviceable LT in the draft, we'll be all set!
Charles in Nashville writes: Dear Tim Per the Peters Trade: I think there's two issues to consider here. The first is that was pretty apparent that Peters wasn't going to stay in Buffalo. Either due to the Bills willingness to pay market value be it based on the Bills evaluation of his talent and/or their ability to meet that price; or Peters desire to play elsewhere. The second issue here is the ability of the organization to plan or strategize with respect to the short or long term success of the organization. In terms of the first, I think the question is did we get fair value for the trade. IMHO, The Bills did not. At a *minimum* they should have gotten a mid first round pick and a 3rd. Right now they are practically looking at a 2nd round and 4th and a possible late round pick. That's not how you want your front office to have handled a trade for premium talent. With supposedly two other teams (Giants, Lions) in the running, they should have been able to leverage that. This brings me to the second point, in 9 years the front office management, coaching, ownership and scouting hasn't had a very good track record of doing what it takes to be successful. So even now that we have "extra picks", I'm not confident we can parlay that into elements that can benefit the franchise. This has been borne out by things like: 1) Choosing the wrong coaches. Almost everyone the Bills have hired has failed miserably and not had better track records elsewhere. Coaches the Bills have passed on (Fox,Coughlin) have become fairly successful at other locales. 2) Choosing the wrong front office personnel. Why does John Guy still have a job? Why did John Butler leave for San Diego? He was a Buffalo guy through and through. Why did the Bills not hire the likes of Pioli or Dimitroff (sp?) or folks from the Baltimore FO? 3) Unable to keep top notch talent. 4) Draft record not very good the last few years. Even when solid talent has been picked, it hasn't been at great value or the talent is not game changing. Only limited examples of outstanding success from the draft (Evans, Peters, McKelvin). Sometimes the talent ends up performing better *after* they leave Buffalo. Which relates to 1) above. I keep hoping that somewhere down the line a journalist without fear or favor will do a deep expose on what ails the Bills and diagnose what exactly went wrong from the franchise that was incredibly successful during the 90s to the fall from grace the past few years. But knowing how the NFL works and the closed fraternity of coaches, owners and front office personnel, as well as, the fear of repercussions on the reporter reporting that news, I just don't see it happening. So for a whole generation of Buffalo Bills fans the hope of success in the near future just seems a pipe dream or more accurately - totally hopeless. I suspect the team of the 90s benefitted from a great coach (Levy) and an incredible front office/talent evaluator (Polian). That combo has proven to be the basic cornerstone of success for even the recent successes in the NFL. Even more than great ownership. Until and unless Bills ownership makes that commitment, I just don't see the present situation changing. Sorry, to be so long winded. Thanks for listening.
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