AFC South: Vince Lombardi
That’s the question Doug Williams takes on here.
Some personalities -- through longevity, likeability, community connection and greatness -- become icons for their cities and fans, more than the sum of their scoring averages, records or all-league selections.
Just as Manning is Indianapolis, John Stockton and Karl Malone are Salt Lake City, Cal Ripken Jr. is Baltimore, Tony Gwynn is San Diego and Vince Lombardi is the man who turned Green Bay, Wis., into Title Town, USA.
"What makes him unusual, he came to a team that was so bad and turned them into such a good team for so long," Pete Fierle, manager of digital media communications for the Pro Football Hall of Fame, says of Manning. "And how many times [leading up to the Super Bowl] was [Lucas Oil Stadium] referred to as the stadium Peyton built? What modern player could have that tag line? I can't think of any."
Once upon a time, passing three-hour radio block on a slow summer day, a friend and I took calls as we ran through every major league city in America trying to pick one iconic sports figure for each.
Some are easy. Some are incredibly difficult.
Williams has some fun hitting on some of them.
Do you consider any more connected to his city than Manning? Please hit the poll.
Peyton Manning melded a team and a town, resurrected the once-proud horseshoe and will finish up as a contender for the greatest of all time on the quarterback list.
There is no minimizing his impact.
Said DaveatIU: “Without drafting Peyton Manning... they would be the Los Angeles Colts right now. 'Nuff said.”
The Blog Network offered four choices per team, plus the option to vote “other.” And out of 160 total options, the drafting of Manning got a higher percentage of votes on his team’s ballot than anyone or anything else.
As of Thursday afternoon, Manning had a whopping 87 percent of the Colts’ vote. He didn’t win by a little. He outpointed the next three biggest Flash Points in your eyes by 18 percent: Joe Namath’s guarantee for the Jets, the Broncos trade for John Elway and the Packers’ hiring of Vince Lombardi were all at 69 percent.
In general, AFC South voters went modern. With the Jaguars and Texans, there is no other choice. With the Colts and Titans, you chose not to hearken back to Baltimore and Houston, respectively.
I understand many of you don’t regard Baltimore/Indianapolis and Houston/Nashville as single histories. But we don’t get to decide. The Irsay and Adams families did.
As edutil21 wrote: “The question is asking about the colts FRANCHISE, not the cities of Indianapolis or Baltimore, and with that in mind it is perfectly plausible to include anything that occurred during the Franchise's time in Baltimore.”
And so, as big a moment as drafting Manning was in setting his franchise’s course, I think my vote has to go to The Greatest Game Ever Played, the 23-17 overtime win over the Giants in the NFL Championship Game at Yankee Stadium in 1958.
Without that game, are we certain the league turns into an entity where Manning has the chance to make the impact he has?
j_sleik83 was disgusted with the balloting: “And the idiots voting reign supreme. It's the 58 title game. In NFL history it's number 1, much less Colts history. And btw, Johnny Unitas is still the greatest QB in Colts history.”
Added CPCaesar: “Do Colts fans have zero sense of history?! I can understand a strong showing for Peyton, but to have him blowing out the game that made the NFL into a televised sport is ridiculous! This team has a legacy that includes Don Shula and Johnny Unitas, but it seems as if their impact on the game is lost on a modern fan base…”
There was also a pretty good other mentioned by a few, including krankor: “The actual Colts Flash Point didn't even involve the team. It was in 1955 when the Pittsburgh Steelers brilliantly decided that it would be a shrewd move to cut Johnny Unitas.”
TITANS: Epic playoff collapse set stage for relocation
With the Titans, modern also ruled. I understand why 52 percent of voters clicked the button for The Music City Miracle.
For Nashville sports fans to get a play like that in the team’s first year as the Titans, in the city’s first playoff game, was absolutely remarkable. It put the team’s claws into everyone with any sort of interest that day for the long haul. Quite frankly, it spoiled them, too.
With apologies to greenlawler and the majority of voters, I’ve got to go a different direction again.
The Oilers/Titans are, historically, average at best. Since the AFL-NFL merger, the team has had 18 winning seasons, 17 losing seasons and six .500 seasons. It’s 14-19 all-time in the playoffs even counting the AFL days when it won a couple of titles. Since the Music City Miracle season, the team is 2-5 in the playoffs. What was transformed?
Put the MCM aside, and the biggest historical moments for the franchise are generally not wins: A yard short of overtime in its one Super Bowl appearance; back-to-back AFC Championship Game losses in Pittsburgh to end the 1978 and 1979 seasons; and the firing of Bum Phillips after an 11-5 year in 1980.
And the mother of bad playoff moments, that epic playoff collapse in Buffalo on Jan. 3, 1993, when the Oilers blew a 35-3 lead to lose 41-38 in overtime.
That’s the Flash Point to me.
What if that team or the 12-4 team a year later (that was scarred by that disaster), went to a Super Bowl? What if it won a Super Bowl?
Surely Bud Adams would have maintained a better standing in the city, which would have been more willing to build a new stadium. Take away that loss, and there still could be a team in Houston wearing powder blue and an oil derrick. (And a guy like me, who got his big break in sports writing because Nashville got an NFL franchise, might be an admissions director at some private high school.)
So I align with mag5011ad: “If they don't blow that 32 point lead, I think they represent the AFC in the Super Bowl, not the Bills. With that excitement in the city, they get the support to build a new stadium, which keeps the team in Houston. Most defining moment. . .”
JAGUARS: Quick Final Four appearance boosted city
A trip to the AFC Championship Game in the Jaguars' second season of play had quite an impact on the market in 1996. It got 52 percent of your votes as the Jaguars' Flash Point, and I am in agreement.
But your comments were mostly about the 1999 season, when the Jaguars hosted the AFC Championship Game. They lost to the Titans for the third time that year, in a season which they lost to no one else.
Said markpark64: “I would say the 1999 AFC Championship Game. It was the last home playoff game and ended a run of four straight playoff appearances. The Jags' history can really be divided into pre-1999 (2 AFC Championship Game appearances in 4 years) and post-1999 (only 3 playoff games and 1 playoff win in over 10 years). The team has not been the same since the 1999 loss.”
You also wanted to spin forward, which isn’t the game we’re playing but was understandable.
Said SeattleJaguar: “It may be too soon to say, but I think the promotion of Gene Smith to GM will be looked at as the most significant turning point for this franchise. The fan base is starting to become more mature and a unique football culture is beginning to establish itself. We are seeing a young, die-hard, fan base emerge from the 'Jaguars babies' of the 90s. If you go to any games, its remarkable how young the fans are and they will stay loyal to the Jags, unlike the old farts that abandoned the team after the 90s. Go Jags!”
TEXANS: Controversial draft choice proved correct
Texans fans voted, narrowly, for the drafting of Mario Williams in 2006 over the awarding of the franchise in 1999.
The Texans got crushed for the selection, but history shows they knew exactly what they were doing. He’s a superior player to Reggie Bush or Vince Young.
The decision to draft Williams did not transform the team, but there is nothing that’s boosted a nine-season-old team in such a dramatic fashion.
Said vonstev1668 “Though I voted for the win against the Cowboys [in the franchise’s first game], the truth is the Texans haven't had their defining moment yet.”
Said EMajorwitz: “Trick question, hasn't happened yet. [Dom] Capers and [Charley] Casserly essentially ruined this team with their horrible drafting and free-agent signings. Other than Andre Johnson, I don't like a single first-round pick. Nearly a decade into the franchise's history and we still haven't made the playoffs while recent expansion teams like Carolina and Jacksonville have been deep into the playoffs."
Posted by ESPN.com's Paul Kuharsky
The Colts had Jim Caldwell in place ahead of time and expect a seamless transition into the post-Tony Dungy era.
It looks like a sound plan.
|AP Photo/Michael Conroy|
|Jim Caldwell has big shoes to fill in Indianapolis, but many in his position have been successful before.|
But popular wisdom says you don't want to be the guy to replace the guy. It's the replacement's replacement, the theory follows, who gains the distance necessary from a legendary name to be able to succeed.
For many, the thought of replacing a popular and successful coach brings back memories of some infamous NFL names.
Former Minnesota coach Les Steckel is still remembered for a 3-13 year in 1984 that wound up being a sabbatical season for Bud Grant. Ray Handley replaced Bill Parcells for the Giants in 1991 and went 14-18 in two seasons. Richie Petitbon replaced Joe Gibbs in 1993 and flamed out with a 4-12 season.
Are you familiar with Phil Bengtson or Paul Wiggin? Me neither.
Bengtson followed up Vince Lombardi in Green Bay and managed three third-place finishes. Wiggin was 11-24 in two-and-a-half seasons following Hank Stram in Kansas City.
But none of that is reason for Colts devotees to fear the dawn of the Caldwell era as he replaces a potential Hall of Famer who takes a .668 winning percentage with him into retirement.
Thanks to some help from Keith Hawkins of ESPN Stats & Information, we can take a detailed look at how the successors to the winningest coaches have fared.
While there were some strikeouts, the history is hardly a horror story. Two successors won multiple Super Bowls, two more were playoff regulars and another is leading his team into the AFC Championship Game on Sunday.
So here's a run through how things have panned out after big-time winning coaches stepped away or were removed. These are the top 10 coaches with the best winning percentages in the Super Bowl era (minimum 100 games coached since the 1966 season):
|Andy Hayt/Getty Images|
|Tom Flores did very well as John Madden's successor, winning two Super Bowls for the Silver-and-Black.|
1) John Madden, .759 (Raiders)
Tom Flores replaced Madden in 1979 and Flores went 91-56 in nine seasons, leading the Raiders to wins in Super Bowl XV and XVII.
2) George Allen, .712 (Rams and Redskins)
Jack Pardee replaced Allen in Washington, and Pardee was 24-24 in three seasons (1978-80). Joe Gibbs replaced Pardee and won 140 games from 1981-92 and three Super Bowls.
3) Tom Landry, .674 (Cowboys)
Jimmy Johnson replaced Landry in 1989 and Johnson won back to back Super Bowls in the 1992 and 1993 seasons. Johnson was 51-37 from 1989-93. [Corrected from earlier when I gave him credit for the one Barry Switzer won in 1994.]
4) Don Shula, .672 (Colts and Dolphins)
Like Landry, Shula was replaced by Johnson. In four seasons (1996-99), Johnson was 38-31 and 2-3 in the postseason. Since Shula, Miami has had six different head coaches.
5) Tony Dungy, .668 (Buccaneers and Colts)
Replaced by Caldwell this week.
6) George Seifert, .648 (49ers and Panthers)
Seifert did some replacing himself, following Bil Walsh. Steve Mariucci replaced Seifert in San Francisco in 1997, and Mariucci got the Niners to the NFC Championship in his first season. In six seasons, Mariucci made the playoffs four times. Since Mariucci left, the 49ers have had three different head coaches.
7) Bill Cowher, .623 (Steelers)
Mike Tomlin replaced Cowher in 2007. In his second season, Tomlin is preparing the Steelers to host Baltimore in the AFC Championship Game.
8-T) Joe Gibbs, .621 (Redskins)
Petitbon was a dud.
8-T) Bud Grant, .621 (Vikings)
Returned for another season after Steckel bombed, then saw Jerry Burns go 55-46 from 1986-91.
10) Bill Belichick .616 (Browns and Patriots)
When he finishes his term in New England, he'll leave a tough headset to fill.
And here's one from outside the top 10: a succession scenario the Colts would be thrilled to mimic.
Bill Walsh, .609 (49ers) -- Replaced by Seifert in 1989, Seifert went on to win two Super Bowls in his first six seasons. He won at least 10 games in all eight of his seasons and only missed the playoffs once. Like Caldwell, Seifert inherited a pretty good quarterback situation, getting two years of Joe Montana and six with Steve Young.
|David Boss/US Presswire|
|Blanton Collier replaced the legendary Paul Brown, and never had a losing season.|
As I couldn't stop asking, here are the succession stories of some other Hall of Fame coaches:
- Paul Brown -- Blanton Collier was in Cleveland from 1963-70, and didn't have a losing season, going 76-34-2.
- Weeb Eubank -- Charley Winner took over the Jets in 1974 and went 9-14 and didn't last two seasons. He was let go after nine games in 1975.
- George Halas -- Following the 1967 season in Chicago when Halas left the Bears' post for the final time, he was replaced by Jim Dooley, who was 16 games under .500 (20-36) from 1968-71.
- Marv Levy -- Was replaced by Wade Phillips in 1998, and Phillips went 29-19 in three seasons, losing two playoff games.
- Chuck Noll -- Bill Cowher took over in 1992 and went 149-90-1 in 15 seasons, reaching two Super Bowls and winning one.
Tony Dungy's place on several significant lists gives a real sense of his place in league history.
He won at a higher percentage with Indianapolis (.759) than Vince Lombardi did in Green Bay (.754). He won more games in his first seven seasons in Indianapolis (85) than Bill Belichick did in New England (75) or than Joe Gibbs did in Washington (74).
During his farewell press conference, he said that while he will live in Tampa, he will spend plenty of time in the city for which he won a Super Bowl, searching for the right word and stabbing at "Indianapolisite" before embracing "Hoosier."
Which leads me to ask for your thoughts on Dungy.
How do those who live in Indianapolis or Indiana frame Dungy in terms of how much he is identified with your city and/or state?
I invite you to share your thoughts about that link and how you expect it will compare in time to other coaches of his era and the places where they spent the best years of their careers.
I'll do my best to sift through your responses and highlight some in the coming days.