Dallas Cowboys: Edgar Jones

Checking in on Cowboys' free agents

April, 1, 2014
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IRVING, Texas – The Dallas Cowboys have lost two players in free agency – Jason Hatcher and Danny McCray – with eight players still available on the market.

DeMarcus Ware does not count as an unrestricted free-agent signing because he was released, and the Cowboys will not receive a compensatory pick in 2015.

Here is a look at the status of their remaining free agents:

RB Phillip Tanner – The Cowboys did not tender him a deal as a restricted free agent, thus allowing him to sign elsewhere. It is possible he'll return on a one-year deal at the minimum, but it is unlikely.

DE Edgar Jones – Has some value because he can play special teams. Another one-year deal at the veteran minimum or possibly a minimum-salary benefit player.

OL Ryan Cook – Did not play last year because of a back injury. His ability to play center and guard helps, but the Cowboys want to get better and younger with their reserve interior linemen.

QB Jon Kitna – He will go back to coaching high school football and teaching math.

LB Ernie Sims – Has some fans on the coaching staff, but he becomes something of a progress-stopper given the development of Kyle Wilber and DeVonte Holloman.

DE Anthony Spencer – He is the Cowboys' most attractive remaining free agent, but where is he in his rehab from microfracture surgery? He has visited the Washington Redskins and New York Giants, but it seems that the longer he is available, the better chance he returns to the Cowboys on a short-term deal.

OL Brian Waters – The same question asked after the season remains now: Does he want to play? In order to play, he needs surgery on his triceps. He could be an emergency option later in the summer.

DE Jarius Wynn – With the signing of Jeremy Mincey, Wynn's return does not seem likely, but he has some position flexibility that the Cowboys like.

Setting the Cowboys' draft plate

March, 25, 2014
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IRVING, Texas -- Now that the NFL has set the compensatory picks, let’s look at where the Cowboys are scheduled to pick in the May draft in each round:

First round: No. 16 overall
Second round: No. 47 overall
Third round: No. 78 overall
Fourth round: No. 119 overall
Fifth round: No. 158 overall
Sixth round: No selection
Seventh round: No. 229 overall (from Chicago)
Seventh round: No. 231 overall
Seventh round: No. 238 (from Kansas City)
Seventh round: No. 248 overall (compensatory)
Seventh round: No. 251 overall (compensatory)
Seventh round: No. 254 overall (compensatory)

The Cowboys’ sixth round pick went to the Kansas City Chiefs in the trade for defensive end Edgar Jones, but they also received a seventh rounder in return. The pick from the Chicago Bears came in the trade for tight end Dante Rosario.

Teams cannot trade compensatory picks.

Putting value on Cowboys' free agents

March, 7, 2014
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IRVING, Texas -- On Thursday, Bill Polian offered up his do's and don'ts when it came to free agency.

Spencer
Hatcher
Hatcher
Today we bring you the free-agent tracker designed by Polian and fellow ESPN Insiders Gary Horton, Matt Williamson and Field Yates, and the grades assigned to the Dallas Cowboys' unrestricted free agents.

The grades also have a monetary value. An "A" player should get $6 million on average per year with guaranteed money in the first three or more years. A "B" player should get $2-$6 million on average per year with guaranteed money in the first two years or less. A "C" player should get $2 million or less on average per year with guaranteed money in the first two years or less. A "D" player should get a one-year deal at the veteran minimum.

Not surprisingly Jason Hatcher gets the highest grade with an A-minus. In the scouting report, Hatcher is "a good fit for the Tampa 2 defense. He's quick off the ball, explosive and disruptive. Hatcher shows good strength versus the run and solid power as a pass-rusher."

The A-minus grade would put Hatcher in the $4-$6 million annually range. Do the Cowboys have that kind of money to spend?

Anthony Spencer came in with a B grade, which I thought was a little surprising. The scouting reported cited his ability to play in the 3-4 as well and acknowledged his knee injury. I would doubt the Cowboys do more than a one-year deal with Spencer, but that is a big window in the $2-$6 million range.

The only other free agents with grades better than D are defensive end Edgar Jones and linebacker Ernie Sims. Jones could be back at the right price, but there will not be a rush to sign him. Sims would appear to have played in his final game as a Cowboy with the club wanting younger, cheaper depth players.

Ryan Cook, Brian Waters, Danny McCray and Jarius Wynn all carried D grades among the remaining free agents.

2014 Cowboys free agents: Edgar Jones

February, 25, 2014
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Edgar Jones
Position: Defensive end
Type: Unrestricted
2013 salary: $715,000

Jones
Jones
Summary: Acquired in a trade from Kansas City the week before the season began, Jones played in only seven games with five tackles, three pressures and a pass deflection on defense. He also had five special teams' tackles. He missed nine games because of a groin injury that eventually required sports hernia surgery.

Why keep him: Maybe you've heard the Cowboys need defensive linemen? Jones has the added benefit of being able to cover kicks and punts, which is not a trait you usually find in defensive ends. Before the injury he was doing well in a limited role, so maybe he could be a rotation player in 2014.

Why let him go: He has 1.5 sacks in seven seasons. You would like more production than that, even in a backup. He turns 30 in December and getting younger and cheaper is always a better option for a team in cap trouble.

Best guess: Jones will be able to test the market, but he is looking at another year of making the minimum wherever he signs.

Cowboys position breakdown: D-line

January, 29, 2014
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Cowboys reporters Calvin Watkins and Todd Archer breakdown the Cowboys, position by position, analyzing what the players did in 2013, what they can do in the future and what the team can do to improve the position in 2014.

Under contract: DeMarcus Ware, George Selvie, Nick Hayden, Corvey Irvin, Martez Wilson, Everette Brown, Frank Kearse, Ben Bass, Tyrone Crawford, Edgar Jones, Caesar Rayford

A look back: Jason Hatcher had the best season of his career with 11 sacks and was added to the Pro Bowl, but the defensive line play in 2013 was shoddy and played a big part in why the Cowboys finished last in the NFL in defense.

Spencer
Monte Kiffin’s defense is predicated on the front four getting pressure, and they did not affect the quarterback enough. From the first day of training camp on, the group was beset by injury. Tyrone Crawford tore his Achilles on the first day. Jay Ratliff never played a down and was cut in October. Anthony Spencer played in one game before needing microfracture surgery on his knee. The Cowboys used 20 different defensive linemen during the season. They hit on George Selvie, who started every game and had seven sacks, and received some moments from Nick Hayden as well, but the group just wasn’t good enough.

DeMarcus Ware missed three games with a quadriceps strain and had a career-low six sacks. He had four sacks in the first three games. Whether it was injury or age, Ware was not the same player in 2013 as he was even in 2012, when he had 11.5 sacks but was limited by shoulder and elbow injuries.

A look ahead: The biggest decision the Cowboys have to make is on Ware. He is to count $16.003 million against the salary cap with a $12.25 million base salary. Do the Cowboys ask him to take a pay cut, or do they restructure his deal in order to create room?

It is a delicate decision that owner and general manager Jerry Jones has been loathed to make in the past. There is no way Ware can count that much against the cap.

It seems almost a given that Hatcher will leave as a free agent. The team does not have the cap space to keep him, and it is difficult to commit big money to a soon-to-be 32-year-old defensive end. The chances of Spencer returning as a free agent are better just because his price will be kept low.

Crawford could be the key to the group, but the Cowboys should not bank on him being an every-down player coming off the injury. He played well as a rookie in 2012, but did not have a sack. His plus, however, is versatility. He could play all along the line. The question for Selvie is whether 2013 was an anomaly or a sign that he finally figured it out.

A look out: Last season's free-agent market was light for defensive linemen, so that could help the Cowboys in possibly keeping Hatcher, but he will take the best offer with this being his last chance to cash in.

Finding free agent help will be difficult, so the best chance to improve is in the draft. They made a mistake in not choosing a defensive lineman last year, and they can’t do that again this year. They need to find a pass-rusher, a run defender and a multi-faceted player. Getting one or two in the early rounds seems imperative.

Position breakdown:

Quarterbacks
Running backs
Tight ends
Wide receivers

Counting Cowboys' draft picks

January, 11, 2014
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IRVING, Texas -- As you get ready for another week of NFL playoffs, just remember the NFL draft is just a short five months away.

Actually a little less than that now.

The draft will be May 8-10.

The Cowboys have eight picks in the draft and will learn if they pick No. 16 or 17 after a coin flip at next month’s NFL Scouting Combine. After the 8-8 finish, they are in a dead heat with the Baltimore Ravens.

The Cowboys have picks in the first five rounds, and three picks in the seventh round. They do not have a sixth-round pick because of their trade with the Kansas City Chiefs for defensive end Edgar Jones. They did pick up the Chiefs’ seventh rounder in return, and will also receive the Chicago Bears’ seventh-round pick as a result of the trade for tight end Dante Rosario.

They could receive a compensatory pick, but those are not released until the NFL Owners meetings in the spring.

The last time the Cowboys used their three seventh-round picks they made out OK. In 2004 they took Nate Jones (No. 205), Patrick Crayton (No. 216) and Jacques Reeves (No. 223).

If you’re just stuck on first-round picks, the Cowboys haven’t taken a player with the 17th overall pick since cornerback Kevin Smith in 1992. In 1990, they did OK with No. 17 when they took Emmitt Smith, who went on to become the NFL’s all-time leading rusher.

The only time they ever used the 16th pick in the draft came in 1961 when they selected E.J. Holub in the second round. Holub went on to an outstanding career with the Dallas Texans/Kansas City Chiefs in the AFL.

Cowboys snap counts: defense

January, 6, 2014
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IRVING, Texas -- No team in the NFL needed more players on defense than the Dallas Cowboys in 2013.

They had 41 defenders with cornerback Brandon Carr playing the most (1,116 snaps) and Dez Bryant playing the least (three). The Indianapolis Colts and New Orleans Saints had the second most with 32 players on defense.

In training camp, the Cowboys’ projected defensive line was Anthony Spencer, Jason Hatcher, Jeremiah Ratliff and DeMarcus Ware. Hatcher played the most snaps (747) but that was only 66 percent of the snaps. Ware missed three games and played 628 snaps (55 percent). Spencer played 34 snaps in one game before his season ended. Ratliff, of course, played none before his release.

Nick Hayden played the most snaps on the defensive line (821). George Selvie did not join the team until training camp began and played 744 snaps.

With Hatcher and Spencer set to be free agents and Ware coming off a career-low six sacks, the Cowboys need to refurbish their defensive line in a way where Hayden and Selvie are not playing as much.

The Cowboys used 20 defensive linemen during the season, although Kyle Wilber moved to linebacker late in the season and played 501 snaps.

It might not have seemed this way, but Jeff Heath played only 79 more snaps than J.J. Wilcox.

Defensive snaps:

1,116 – Brandon Carr
1,088 – Orlando Scandrick
1,015 – Barry Church
874 – Bruce Carter
821 - Nick Hayden
747 – Jason Hatcher
744 – George Selvie
702 – Sean Lee
628 - DeMarcus Ware
594 - Jeff Heath
515 - J.J. Wilcox
506 – Morris Claiborne
501 – Kyle Wilber
380 – Ernie Sims
275 – Jarius Wynn
254 - Drake Nevis
207 – DeVonte Holloman
197 – Justin Durant
178 – B.W. Webb
163 – Will Allen
153 – Everette Brown
144 – Caesar Rayford
117 – Corvey Irvin
81 – Sterling Moore
72 - Edgar Jones
63 – Cameron Lawrence
49 – David Carter
46 – Jason Vega
45 – Jerome Long
38 – Landon Cohen
34 – Anthony Spencer
34 – Frank Kearse
24 – Kyle Bosworth
22 – Micah Pellerin
20 – Everett Dawkins
20 – Martez Wilson
16 – Jakar Hamilton
15 – Marvin Austin
8 – Danny McCray
6 – Orie Lemon
3 – Dez Bryant

A look at the Cowboys' free agents

December, 30, 2013
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IRVING, Texas -- With the Dallas Cowboys' season over, here is a list of their exclusive rights, restricted and unrestricted free agents heading into 2014.

Exclusive rights (1)
Chris Jones

Restricted free agents (2)
Dan Bailey
Phillip Tanner

Unrestricted free agents (9)
Ryan Cook
Jason Hatcher
Edgar Jones
Jon Kitna
Danny McCray
Ernie Sims
Anthony Spencer
Brian Waters
Jarius Wynn

Cowboys LBs a mixed, matched unit

December, 18, 2013
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IRVING, Texas -- At the beginning of the season the Dallas Cowboys' defensive line was hit by injuries and they have been forced to add new players all season. On Sunday Frank Kearse could be the 19th different defensive lineman to play in a game for the Cowboys.

Now the Cowboys' linebacker corps is as thin as a piece of paper as they prepare for Sunday's game against the Washington Redskins.

“You always have guys who are at certain points with their health over the course of the week and you've got to make your judgments,” coach Jason Garrett said. “The big thing we try to do is make sure we have all of the contingency plans in place. If this guy is not available, who is playing? What happens if he gets hurt, who goes in and all that stuff. We have a lot of discussions about that as coaches at all positions with all injuries. You deal with them the best you can and you go forward.”

Sean Lee is expected to miss his second straight game with a neck injury. Ernie Sims did not practice because of a groin injury and his availability for the Redskins' game is in doubt. Justin Durant's season ended on Tuesday because of a hamstring injury.

Bruce Carter said he will return after not playing last week against the Green Bay Packers. DeVonte Holloman could start his first game at middle linebacker. Kyle Wilber, who was a defensive end last month, will start at strongside linebacker. They have Cameron Lawrence and Orie Lemon as backups. Defensive end Edgar Jones has some linebacker experience from his 3-4 days.

“Right, we understood we don't have really any depth right now at linebacker so if we can get guys back healthy like me, try to get Ernie there, he's been banged up,” Carter said. “We just need to get anybody really.”

Before the loss to the Packers Holloman had never played middle linebacker in a game.

“Just knowing what to look for before it happens,” Holloman said. “Guys that have been in the fire before, they can see things coming a lot faster than guys just thrown out there or their first time out there. So just seeing a couple of things before they come at you.”

When the Cowboys lost Durant and Sims last week, they had to rely on hand signals from the coaches to the players since only two communication devices are allowed in players' helmets. Carter will be the signal-caller Sunday with Holloman serving as the backup.

It does not help that the Redskin feature the NFL's third-ranked rush offense, led by Alfred Morris.

“We know we've got a little extra tutorship going on and things like that,” defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin said. “We've just got to do the best we can. We're going to show up and we're going to play hard and whoever is out there is going to do a heck of a job. When we walked into that meeting this morning, ‘Man, we're upbeat. Let's go. Let's go, man.' We've got a couple of games to go and hopefully another one after that. But you only play one at a time. You've got to play 60 plays, 65 plays, whatever it is, so don't worry about the second game. Don't worry about Philadelphia. Let's play 60, 65 plays at the very best of our ability and then play hard. That's what we've got to do.”

Cowboys need more from Ware, Hatcher

December, 17, 2013
12/17/13
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IRVING, Texas -- Of the nine defensive linemen on the Dallas Cowboys roster, only three were with the team when training camp began and Nick Hayden was far from a lock to make the cut.

[+] EnlargeDeMarcus Ware and Jason Hatcher
Tim Heitman/USA TODAY SportsThe Cowboys defense stands a better chance with DeMarcus Ware and Jason Hatcher on the field at the same time.
DeMarcus Ware and Jason Hatcher are the two mainstays left and both have been banged up. Ware missed three games with a quadriceps injury. Hatcher missed one with a stinger that has been problematic for two months.

If the defense is to have a chance to succeed, the Cowboys need Ware and Hatcher. But here's a question: Why are they not in the game more?

Jason Garrett said the Cowboys, "believe in the rotational system that Rod [Marinelli] uses."

It's fine to rotate players. You want players to remain fresh through the course of a game. But do they need to come off the field together?

Of the 69 defensive snaps in Sunday's loss to the Green Bay Packers, Ware and Hatcher were on the field together for 44 of them. There were 13 snaps where one or the other was on the field. There were 12 snaps in which neither was on the field, including goal-line snaps in the fourth quarter before Andrew Quarless' touchdown. Hatcher was not on the field for James Jones' 3-yard touchdown catch and Eddie Lacy's game-winning score.

At different times the Cowboys' defensive line featured Everette Brown, Drake Nevis, Corey Irvin and George Selvie. At one point they had Ware and Edgar Jones at defensive end with Jarius Wynn and Irvin at tackle.

"It's real important to keep that group fresh up front," Garrett said. "If you're looking for guys to put pressure on the quarterback, being fresh is a big part of that. The best defenses line I've been around rotated guys. So we'll continue to do that. It's not exclusive. They don't always come out together. They don't always play together. But occasionally they do, sometimes they're on the sideline together and you have to battle through that. The other guys have an opportunity to step up and make an impact on the game. George Selvie did a fantastic job in yesterday's game. He made a lot of plays, tackle for losses, sacks and impacted the game in a positive way. Everett Brown did as well. We have to get that across the board."

But there is a time and place for everything. In the most crucial snaps -- like on the goal line -- Ware and Hatcher must be on the field.

Ponder the 46: Room for Edgar Jones

December, 14, 2013
12/14/13
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IRVING, Texas – As we Ponder the 46 this week while the Dallas Cowboys get ready for the Green Bay Packers, some consideration has to be taken into how the Cowboys get defensive end Edgar Jones on the active roster. So in a way, we’re pondering 47 players this week.

As usual let’s start with what we know: Sean Lee, Bruce Carter and Dwayne Harris are out with injuries. Morris Claiborne might be listed as questionable, but he has not practiced since getting hurt and I don’t believe he plays. Tackle Darrion Weems and safety Jakar Hamilton are not needed this week.

The injuries to Lee and Carter allow rookie DeVonte Holloman to be active. It also gets Justin Durant back on the field.

Like last week, the Cowboys are heavy on the defensive line. And that does not include the addition of Jones.

Since Jones should be activated this week, the Cowboys not only have to find a spot on the 53-man roster for him, they have to find a spot on the gameday roster for him. He is a valuable special teams player too, so he can bring some versatility.

Everette Brown was inactive last week against the Chicago Bears, so that would put him on thin ice for not only this week’s gameday spot but also a roster spot. Hamilton could also be an option because he can return to the practice squad.

Without knowing how the Cowboys will get Jones on to the roster at this point, we’ll stick with what we do know (or at least what we think we know). Here’s the projected list of inactive players: Lee, Carter, Harris, Claiborne, Weems, Hamilton and Brown.

Edgar Jones ready for call-up

December, 13, 2013
12/13/13
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IRVING, Texas -- The Dallas Cowboys have the intention of activating defensive end Edgar Jones from the injured reserve designated to return list by Saturday's 3 p.m. deadline.

Jones
Jones
Jones has practiced all week and said he is ready to contribute.

"I think I can jump right back into it," Jones said. "I think my preparation I was doing before I got back on the field as far as staying in the meeting rooms and staying up to date with my playbook and still talking to my coaches and acting like I was playing has helped me. It felt like I hadn't missed any time."

Jones has not played since Sept. 29 against the San Diego Chargers. He had sports hernia surgery Oct. 18 and was placed on short-term injured reserve with the hope he would return in December. He had five tackles and three quarterback pressures before the injury. He also had four special teams tackles.

"I feel like I can help out," Jones said. "With the coaches putting me back out there, I know they're counting on me to do what I do."

For a defensive line that has been hurting, anything will help at this point in the season.

Cowboys to be patient with DE Jones

December, 5, 2013
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IRVING, Texas -- Dallas Cowboys defensive end Edgar Jones will not be activated off the injured reserve/designated to return list this week, but he could return to game action Dec. 15 against the Green Bay Packers.

Jones was placed on the short-term IR list Oct. 18 after after undergoing sports hernia surgery. Jones has stepped up his rehab in recent weeks, but the Cowboys can be patient with his return. The team has three weeks to activate him off the list and two weeks before they would have to put him on the 53-man roster.

The Cowboys would have to make a spot before Jones could return to the active roster.

Jones has not played since Sept. 29 against the Denver Broncos. He had five tackles, three quarterback pressures and a pass deflection in the first five games. He also had four special teams tackles.

Cowboys' DL moves since May

November, 6, 2013
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IRVING, Texas -- Since May 16, the Dallas Cowboys have signed, traded, acquired, put on injured reserve or released 28 defensive linemen. They saw another, Josh Brent, retire on July 18.

Everett Dawkins and Hall Davis are the latest additions. Dawkins was signed off the Minnesota Vikings' practice squad to the active roster, and Davis filled the final practice-squad vacancy.

There has been an incredible amount of movement on the Cowboys' defensive line. If you remember the Travis Chappelear era consider yourself fortunate.

Check out these transactions by date involving only the defensive line:

May 16 – Signed Anthony Hargrove
June 5 – Waived/injured Robert Callaway
June 11 – Signed Jeris Pendleton
June 20 – Cut Hargrove
June 25 – Signed Jerome Long
July 18 – Josh Brent retired
July 26 – Signed George Selvie and Landon Cohen
July 31 – Cut Ike Igbinosun, signed Toby Jackson
Aug. 1 – Waived/injured Cameron Sheffield
Aug. 6 – Waived Monte Taylor, signed Jabari Fletcher
Aug. 12 – Signed Travis Chappelear
Aug. 13 – Claimed Thaddeus Gibson
Aug. 19 – Waived Chappelear, Jackson
Aug. 21 – Signed Jason Vega
Aug. 26 - Cut Pendleton
Aug. 27 – Placed Tyrone Crawford on injured reserve, Jay Ratliff on reserve/PUP
Aug. 31 – Cut Fletcher, Gibson, Long, Vega; acquired Edgar Jones from Kansas City
Sept. 1 – Traded Sean Lissemore to San Diego
Sept. 2 – Signed Vega to practice squad
Sept. 3 – Acquired Caesar Rayford from Indianapolis
Sept. 5 – Chappelear waived off injured reserve
Sept. 7 – Placed Ben Bass on injured reserve; re-signed Long
Sept. 17 – Cut Cohen, signed David Carter
Sept. 24 – Cut Long, signed Drake Nevis
Sept. 25 – Placed Anthony Spencer on injured reserve
Oct. 15 – Cut Carter, Signed Jarius Wynn
Oct. 16 – Released Ratliff off reserve/PUP
Oct. 18 – Signed Vega off practice squad; placed Jones on IR to return list
Oct. 21 – Signed Marvin Austin
Oct. 29 – Released Vega; signed Everette Brown
Oct. 31 – Signed Vega to practice squad
Nov. 5 – Cut Austin
Nov. 6 – Signed Everett Dawkins off Minnesota practice squad; signed Hall Davis to practice squad

How the Cowboys shop for D-line help

October, 23, 2013
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IRVING, Texas – Of the 10 defensive linemen the Dallas Cowboys have on their 53-man roster, six joined the team after training camp started.

After DeMarcus Ware, Jason Hatcher, Kyle Wilber and Nick Hayden, George Selvie is the veteran of the bunch, and he joined the team in Oxnard, Calif. on July 24.

Jason Vega joined the team Aug. 21 and spent the first six weeks on the practice squad. The Cowboys traded for Caesar Rayford on Sept. 3. They signed Drake Nevis on Sept. 24. They added Jarius Wynn last week. Marvin Austin was brought on board on Monday.

This does not include guys they signed after camp and have since cut, like Landon Cohen (signed July 24, cut Sept. 17), David Carter (signed Sept. 17, cut Oct. 15) and Edgar Jones (acquired Aug. 31, placed on short-term injured reserve Oct. 18).

Finding players is not easy. As Bill Parcells said, you just can’t go to Texaco and find one. Yet the Cowboys have had great success the last few years in finding guys off the street to perform. Two years ago it was wide receiver Laurent Robinson. Last year it was linebacker Ernie Sims. Hayden was signed in January after he did not play in 2012 and has 25 tackles and 10 quarterback pressures.

“The first thing you're looking for is the best player available,” coach Jason Garrett said.

The personnel conversations are constant.

“You talk about these guys, you watch them,” Garrett said. “A lot of times you have history with the player, whether it’s direct history or you’ve spent a lot of time with him prior to the draft. You try to get all of those thoughts and impressions out there. You watch the tape and see where he is right now and what his role might be coming into our football team and how he’ll be able to help us.”

Garrett wants the “right kind of guy.” The player needs to fit the system. And the Cowboys also prefer that they were at least in training camp with another team or playing earlier in the season to be in some semblance of conditioning.

Nevis and Wynn were with the San Diego Chargers earlier in the year. Austin was with the Miami.

Nevis and Wynn played in just their first week with the team after three practices. Austin will likely do the same Sunday against the Detroit Lions.

“You certainly have to learn scheme and technique and all of those things,” Garrett said. “The one thing I would say, defensive linemen are typically used to being rotational players. The idea that they have to come in and play 65 plays in a game, like maybe an offensive linemen would, you’re more used to have those guys sub in and out. That’s been their mentality. That’s always been their mentality.”

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