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There was a time -- like pretty much the last 50 years -- when a Heisman Trophy wasn’t a very good thing for a quarterback to have on his résumé as he entered the NFL.

When Baylor’s Robert Griffin III gets taken early in next week’s NFL draft, he could be the latest piece in the trend of turning around the apparent curse on quarterbacks who won the Heisman. It has started to change only recently, but all of the sudden it’s looking like the trophy isn’t an anchor guaranteeing NFL mediocrity or obscurity for a quarterback.

Look back at 2010 winner Cam Newton. He was last year’s offensive rookie of the year for the Carolina Panthers and set all sorts of rookie passing (and rushing) records. There’s big hope in St. Louis that 2008 winner Sam Bradford can get back to the promise he showed as a rookie after struggling through a rough 2010 season. Then there’s 2007 winner Tim Tebow. He couldn’t throw spirals in Denver, but he won games. That at least created a market for Tebow to get traded to the New York Jets, where it remains to be seen if he’ll ever be able to win the starting job away from Mark Sanchez.

But there’s at least hope that Griffin, Newton, Bradford and Tebow can go on to have long and prosperous NFL careers. Before they came along, there were decades of evidence that suggested quarterbacks should just quit the game after winning the Heisman.

Remember Troy Smith, Eric Crouch, Danny Wuerffel, Charlie Ward and Gino Torretta? How about Ty Detmer, Andre Ware or Pat Sullivan?

They had little to no success in the NFL.

And remember Jason White?

I honestly did not at first. I had to go back and look up White, who won the trophy not all that long ago. He won it in 2003 while putting up some gaudy numbers at the University of Oklahoma. White didn’t even get drafted and quit football altogether after a short training-camp stint with the Tennessee Titans. He never even played in a regular-season NFL game.

Guys like White, Smith, Crouch, Wuerffel, Ward, Torretta, Detmer, Ware and Sullivan all had some things in common. In general, they were able to win the Heisman because they put up big statistics at programs where they were surrounded by elite players. They also had limitations -- usually in size, speed or arm strength -- that prevented them from being taken very seriously by NFL talent evaluators.

But those same evaluators also missed on some Heisman winners who seemed to have what the NFL wanted. Remember Matt Leinart?

He came from one of those football factories (USC), where he was surrounded by guys like Reggie Bush, but Leinart was supposed to be the one whose college success could transfer to the NFL. That’s why the Arizona Cardinals drafted him in the first round. But Leinart was nothing short of a tremendous disappointment.

When he flopped, it looked like there really was something to the Heisman Curse.

Prior to Tebow, Bradford, Newton and Griffin, you’ve got to look at a list of 18 quarterbacks who won the Heisman before you find one who really made it big. You’ve got to go all the way back to Roger Staubach, who won it for Navy in 1963. He went on to have a great career for the Dallas Cowboys and earned a spot in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Since Staubach won the Heisman, other quarterbacks have had to settle for just getting into the College Football Hall of Fame.

Sure, there have been a few Heisman winners to come out and have some success. Jim Plunkett won two Super Bowls, but his career didn’t really take off until he landed with the Raiders after mediocre stints in New England and San Francisco.

Vinny Testaverde had an extremely long NFL career and the longevity led to some impressive career statistics. But Testaverde never had the kind of career so many people imagined when he was coming out of the University of Miami and taken No. 1 overall by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1987.

Guys like Steve Spurrier and Doug Flutie bounced around and had some success. Then there’s Carson Palmer, who has had some bright moments, but still is trying to fully live up to the Heisman hype.

But Newton, Griffin, Tebow and Bradford finally might be able to put a stop to the near-half-decade drought of Heisman Trophy winners truly excelling in the NFL.

“Cam Newton is the best thing to ever happen to Robert Griffin III,’’ former NFL quarterback Chris Weinke said as we discussed this year’s crop of quarterbacks back in February. “Just like Drew Brees is the best thing to happen to [Wisconsin draft prospect Russell Wilson]. Cam showed that a big, athletic quarterback that can run can be great in the NFL. Brees showed that a guy that’s not 6-foot-4 or 6-foot-5 can throw for 5,000 yards in an NFL season. We all know the NFL is a copycat league. Cam’s success and Drew’s success helps the draft stock of guys like Robert and Russell.’’

Ironically, Weinke’s name is another one on that Heisman list. His story might be the most unique of all the Heisman-winning quarterbacks. Weinke enrolled at Florida State after giving up a minor-league baseball career. He won the Heisman in 2000 and seemed to have the talent of a classic drop-back passer, but the fact he would turn 29 in his rookie training camp, pushed him into the fourth round of the 2001 draft. The Carolina Panthers took him and he started under coach George Seifert as a rookie, but never could quite won over John Fox, who took over the next year.

Weinke spent the next five seasons as a backup in Carolina and finished his career in 2007 with San Francisco.

These days, Weinke has carved a niche as a quarterback guru. He is the director of football operations at IMG Academies in Bradenton, Fla. He has worked extensively with Newton and some other quarterback prospects over the past few years.

Weinke says he’s seen the game change just since his playing days ended. Like just about everyone else, he says the NFL has become more driven by quarterbacks. He says natural talent is a prerequisite for NFL success and he points to guys like Newton and Griffin, saying they could be a new prototype. And he goes back to his point about the NFL being a copycat league.

“People are always looking for what works,’’ Weinke said. “Cam obviously had a fantastic rookie season. So people look at Robert and say he can do the same thing because the skill sets are similar.’’

For Griffin, Newton and Bradford -- and perhaps even Tebow in his own way -- maybe the skill sets are so good that it no longer matters if a quarterback is lugging around a Heisman Trophy.

The Robert Griffin III episode of Gruden's QB Camp, which aired Monday night, was generally well received. People were impressed with Griffin, who came off as cool and smart and completely composed during the half-hour special. The Washington Redskins fans from whom I heard came out of the thing even more excited than they already were at the idea of Griffin as their team's new quarterback.

But there was one minor issue a few people raised, more as question than as criticism. More than one person has asked me why Griffin's show was so focused on Griffin's personality while Andrew Luck's, which aired three days earlier, was so much more focused on Xs and Os. If you watched Luck's, you'll remember a lot of film study, a lot of chalkboard time and a lot of repetition of the phrase "Spider 3 Y banana." We saw very little X-and-O stuff during Griffin's show.

So, in an attempt to get this question answered for you, I reached out to Monday Night Football producer Jay Rothman, who was happy to explain that they collect more than five hours of tape for each of these shows and must, of course, cut that down to the most compelling possible 22 or 23 minutes (to account for the commercials). Additionally, they've made 10 of these this year, with 10 different quarterbacks. The Luck and Griffin ones were just the first two to air. They don't want each of them to feel exactly the same.

"In the case of RG3, he had such a great personality, the stuff he was giving us was compelling," Rothman said. "Each of the shows has its own personality and feel, and I think at the end of the RG3 one, fans got a sense of what the kid was all about. In the body of the storytelling, you get a sense of the kid -- his personality, his smarts, all of that."

The important thing to remember is that Griffin was put through the same X-and-O paces by Gruden as Luck was. That stuff just didn't make it on-air. But if you really want to see it, you will get your chance.

Rothman told me that Gruden occasionally brings in a guest when he feels it's appropriate to the subject, and he invited former NFL quarterback (and Heisman Trophy winner and No. 1 pick) Vinny Testaverde in for the chalkboard portion of his time with Griffin. The producers are in the process of editing that portion of the session -- Griffin being grilled on Xs and Os by Gruden and Testaverde -- to air on a future edition of "NFL Live." So at some point in the future (I'll try my best to let you know when), you will be able to see that portion of Griffin's time with Gruden, if you're hungry for more.

Also, I'm going to take this chance to plug our programming some more. The Griffin show airs three more times this weekend and 29 more times total over the next month and a half. This is the full schedule of Gruden's QB camp programming, which will also feature eight more quarterbacks before it's all said and done. I'm enjoying them very much, and I hope you will too.

I am traveling for a good chunk of this day, as getting out of Green Bay on the morning after a playoff game is a challenge, so the blog may be a bit light depending on whether my plane is Wi Fi equipped. To keep you busy, here are some facts the good folks at ESPN Stats & Information sent us Sunday night regarding Sunday's NFC Championship Game between the New York Giants and the San Francisco 49ers.

We're No. 1: The starting quarterbacks in the game will be New York's Eli Manning, who was the No. 1 pick in the NFL Draft in 2004, and San Francisco's Alex Smith, who was the No. 1 pick in the 2005 Draft. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, it's the second time in history that two No. 1 overall picks have faced each other in a conference championship, the first being the John Elway-Vinny Testaverde matchup in the 1998 AFC Championship Game.

Experience: This will be the 13th conference championship game for the 49ers, which is the third-most for any team. The Steelers have appeared in 15 and the Cowboys 14. It's the fifth conference championship game for the Giants, who are 4-0 all-time in this round, having won the NFC Championship Game in 1986, 1990, 2000 and 2007. They won the Super Bowl in all but one of those years -- 2000, when they lost to the Ravens.

Bay Area Blues: The Giants are 3-11 in San Francisco since 1980. That counts regular-season and playoff games. The 49ers are 19-8 all-time in home playoff games. A victory Sunday would tie them with the Steelers for the most home playoff wins of all time. But Manning got his fourth career playoff road win Sunday, tying him for the most ever by a quarterback. And Tom Coughlin got his sixth career playoff road win Sunday, which puts him one behind Tom Landry for the all-time record by a head coach.

Familiar foe: This is the eighth time the Giants and 49ers have met in the playoffs. That ties it with Giants-Bears and Cowboys-Rams as the most common playoff matchup of all time.

Interesting story here about how Carolina receiver Steve Smith ranks the quarterbacks he has played with since coming into the league in 2001.

When you simply glance at the headline, you might think Smith is selling rookie Cam Newton short. Smith says Newton is No. 3 on his list.

But when you read Smith’s words and think about them, this one is not difficult to understand. Although all indications are that Newton and Smith have developed a very strong chemistry, Newton hasn’t been in the league for a full season.

He’s fared very well through the first 11 games. If Newton keeps doing what he’s been doing and Smith, who is under contract through 2012, stays healthy, the rankings could change. There already is no doubt Newton is the most physically talented quarterback the Panthers have had.

But Smith has a good memory, and that’s why he ranks Jake Delhomme at No. 1. I know a lot of Carolina fans were down on Delhomme as he left at the end of the 2009 season. But Delhomme had a nice overall career in Carolina and he had a strong bond with Smith.

The two were teammates from 2003 through 2009, and they shared a lot of big moments. But Smith’s pick at No. 2 is somewhat surprising, again on first glance.

Smith went with Vinny Testaverde. Although Testaverde was with the Panthers for a little more than half of the 2007 season, he was at a point in his career where he had a big impact on Smith.

When Delhomme went down with an elbow injury that season, backup David Carr didn’t work out. The Panthers lured Testaverde out of retirement and he quickly brought a strong presence and leadership skills to the locker room. At that point, Testaverde was more than willing to share the wisdom he had collected through the years.

Smith said he learned a lot from Testavrede, and still uses many of those lessons.

So, after you really think about it, it’s not all that surprising Smith ranked Newton third on his list. Smith was with Delhomme for a long time. Smith also benefitted greatly simply by being around Testaverde. Newton hasn’t been around long enough to have a lasting impact on Smith. At least not yet.

Plus, Smith is a pretty smart guy. Although he’s given Newton plenty of praise this season, it would be out of character and not a great idea for Smith to go ahead and put a rookie at No. 1.

Newton’s off to a very nice start, but there still is a lot of work to be done.

In this Insider post, Football Outsiders takes a look at the 10 biggest oversights in NFL history. Basically, they’re looking at guys that started out with one team, didn’t do much of anything there and went on to greatness elsewhere.

Well, guess what? The No. 1 and No. 2 guys on the list come from teams that are now part of the NFC South.

Brett Favre came in at No. 1 and Steve Young is No. 2. Yep, I know it’s ancient history, but Favre and Young each spent a little time with teams now in the NFC South.

Favre was drafted by Atlanta and spent a year with the Falcons. It’s easy to look back and say the Falcons and then-coach Jerry Glanville made a huge mistake in trading away a guy who’s sure to be in the Hall of Fame. But that’s not really a fair way of looking at it. Fact is, Favre was wild in those days and has admitted he was out of control.

There are stories about the Falcons posting a security guard at his door so he wouldn’t sneak out the night before a game. There’s also the legendary story about Favre missing practice and telling Glanville it was because he was in a car accident.

Glanville’s response: "You are a car accident."

Favre put things together when he got Green Bay. But things were never going to work in Atlanta if Favre had stayed on the same path.

Saying the Bucs were flat-out wrong in giving up on Young after two ugly seasons isn’t right either. It just wasn’t the right place or the right time for Young to even have a chance. In the late 1980s, the Bucs were as dysfunctional a team as you’ll ever see. Young spent most Sunday’s running for his life because the Bucs couldn’t protect him.

They gave up on him and traded him to San Francisco, where he prospered after serving some time as Joe Montana’s backup. Tampa Bay turned around and drafted Vinny Testaverde as the franchise quarterback. Testaverde also had enormous talent, but could never get things going with the Bucs because there was so little talent.

He already has thrown for 7,000 more yards than Terry Bradshaw, completed one fewer touchdown pass than George Blanda and won one more Super Bowl championship than Jim Kelly and Fran Tarkenton combined.

So they already should be carving Drew Brees from the shoulders up in Canton, Ohio, right? The quarterback of the New Orleans Saints could retire tomorrow and waltz straight to the Pro Football Hall of Fame in five years, correct?

Well, it’s not quite that easy. At least not yet.

Brees has 35,266 career passing yards. He should soar past Kelly in the first game of this season and should end the year somewhere pretty close to Johnny Unitas, who ranks No. 12 all-time with 40,238 passing yards.

If Brees throws 33 touchdown passes this season, the same number he threw last season, he’ll have 266 for his career. That number would put him in the top 10, just behind Joe Montana at 273.

If you’re putting up numbers like Unitas and Montana, shouldn’t you be an automatic Hall of Famer? Yes, if Brees had played in the same era as Unitas or Montana.

But times have changed, and if you don’t believe me, let me throw out three names: Vinny Testaverde, Drew Bledsoe and Kerry Collins. All three rank well ahead of Brees in career passing yards, and Collins might not be done yet. Bledsoe and Testaverde also rank ahead of Brees in career touchdown passes.

Bledsoe, Testaverde and Collins are pretty good quarterbacks, and their stats were helped by longevity. That’s not a bad attribute, but nobody is ever going to argue that Testaverde, Bledsoe or Collins belongs in the Hall of Fame.

What they represent is the middle ground of the last generation. Brees has to cross that -- and then some -- to assure himself a spot in Canton.

Testaverde had 46,233 career passing yards, which ranks seventh. Bledsoe is one spot behind him at 44,611 yards. Collins is No. 11 at 40,441 yards. Testaverde is No. 8 in career touchdowns with 275, and Bledsoe is No. 14 with 251.

As a member of this generation of quarterbacks, Brees has to go beyond the numbers of guys like that. The bar has been raised, and it’s still rising.

Assuming Brett Favre stays retired this time, he finished his career leading in passing yards (71,838) and touchdown passes (508). Then, you’ve got guys like Peyton Manning, who is 34, still going strong with 54,828 passing yards and 399 touchdowns and Tom Brady, who is 33, with 34,744 yards, 251 touchdowns and a handful of Super Bowl rings.

Manning and Brady are going to continue to increase their numbers, and Brees has to stay on a similar pace. I’ve had the honor to vote for the Hall of Fame twice, and I can assure you voters pay very close attention to a player's contemporaries. Brees isn’t going to get in simply by putting up numbers close to Testaverde, Collins and Bledsoe.

He’s got to stay somewhere close to Manning and Brady. It would help if Brees could avoid seasons like last year when he threw a career-high 22 interceptions and the Saints got bounced by Seattle in the first round of the playoffs.

I’m not trying to cast gloom on Brees’ Hall of Fame chances. I seriously think he’ll get there, but I’m just saying there’s some work left to be done.

Brees had some knee problems last season but still threw for 4,620 yards and 33 touchdowns. Those numbers are pretty comparable to an average of the two seasons before that.

Let’s assume the knee is healthy and say Brees goes out and plays four more seasons with numbers like that. It’s fairly realistic, as long as Sean Payton’s calling the plays, Marques Colston is catching the passes and Jahri Evans and Carl Nicks are blocking up front.

That would put Brees at 53,746 passing yards and 367 touchdown passes. That would put him fourth on the all-time passing yards list and fourth on the list of all-time touchdown passes, as they now stand.

That would be an automatic pass into Canton. Brees doesn’t even need to reach those numbers to get there. He just needs to move ahead of the middle-of-the-pack guys, and a few more playoff wins wouldn’t hurt. Brees is approaching the doors to Canton. He just needs to keep going straight up a few more steps.

Nice nugget from ESPN Stats & Information on multiple Heisman Trophy winners selected in the same draft and this one has big NFC South implications.

With Cam Newton and Mark Ingram both selected in the first round Thursday night, the 2011 draft marked just the seventh draft since 1967 in which more than one Heisman Trophy winner has entered the league in the same year.

Newton was picked No. 1 overall and he was college football’s Heisman Trophy winner last season. Ingram was taken at No. 28, after the Saints traded back into the first round to get him. Ingram won the Heisman in the 2009 college season.

The feat also happened in last year’s draft, when Sam Bradford and Tim Tebow both came with the trophy. Prior to that, Reggie Bush and Matt Leinart came in together in 2006.

Beyond that, there was a much bigger gap in the time frame. Desmond Howard and Ty Detmer came in the 1992 draft. Vinny Testaverde and Bo Jackson were picked in the 1987 draft. Herschel Walker and Doug Flutie were selected in 1985. Billy Sims and Charles White were drafted in 1980.

I once heard Tom Donahoe, the former Buffalo Bills president and general manager, call quarterback Drew Bledsoe a future Pro Football Hall of Famer.

Then again, Donahoe used to say a lot of things.

I was reminded of this when taking a glance at players who will make their first appearance on the Hall of Fame ballot for 2012.

Buffalo News reporter Mark Gaughan, who's on the Hall of Fame selection committee and last weekend was elected president of the Pro Football Writers Association, blogged the top newcomers to consider the next few years.

The lists are helpful in speculating when fan favorites such as Andre Reed and Curtis Martin will get their Canton calls. They both were finalists this year -- Reed for the fifth time, Martin for the first -- but weren't added to the 2011 induction class Saturday.

Perhaps that development was fitting for Martin because his coach with the New England Patriots and New York Jets will be on the ballot again. They could get in together in 2012.

Bill Parcells has been a finalist twice, but not since 2002 because rules for coaches changed. They now must wait five years from their last game to be eligible for induction, and Parcells returned to the sidelines with the Dallas Cowboys in 2003.

Is Parcells a Hall of Famer? I know Miami Dolphins fans aren't too thrilled with him these days, but he did add to an already remarkable legacy -- two championships, different teams to the Super Bowl, a few organizational turnarounds -- by guiding the Dolphins from 1-15 to the AFC East title as their football operations boss.

Also on the ballot next year will be Bledsoe, running backs Corey Dillon and Tiki Barber, fullback Mike Alstott, guard Will Shields and coaches Bill Cowher and Marty Schottenheimer.

Bledsoe had a fine career with the Patriots, Bills and Cowboys and ranks eighth all-time in passing yards. But he was a Pro Bowler only four times and never was first-team All-Pro. Bledsoe was helpful in getting the Patriots their first championship, so he does have a ring. But that was Tom Brady's team.

Dillon also was a four-time Pro Bowler and won a Super Bowl with the Patriots. He ranks 17th in rushing yards and never led the league in a major rushing category.

Schottenheimer played for the Bills and Patriots before winning 61 percent of his regular-season games as head coach of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Redskins and San Diego Chargers. His 200 victories rank sixth all-time, but his 5-23 playoff record will hurt.

That group of first-time candidates -- plus the newcomers for 2013 -- bodes well for Reed. There won't be any new receivers for him to box out. He already has jockeyed ahead of contemporaries Cris Carter and Tim Brown by making the cut from 15 to 10 in the selection process the past two years. Carter and Brown haven't.

Gaughan highlighted first-year players for next few classes.

2013: Quarterback Vinny Testaverde, offensive linemen Larry Allen and Jonathan Ogden, defensive tackle Warren Sapp, defensive end Michael Strahan.

2014: Running back Shaun Alexander, receiver Marvin Harrison, linebacker Derrick Brooks, safety Rodney Harrison and coaches Tony Dungy, Jon Gruden and Mike Holmgren -- if they don't return to sideline work.

2015: Quarterback Kurt Warner, receivers Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt, tackles Orlando Pace and Walter Jones and linebacker Junior Seau.

Before it was delayed 48 hours by a massive snow flurry, the Minnesota Vikings' game at the Philadelphia Eagles wasn't shaping up as the most highly-anticipated matchup of the century. Now? Who knows what we'll see when both teams finally arrive at Lincoln Financial Field for an 8 p.m. ET kickoff.

A few thoughts:

1. Snowbound: Vikings players and coaches spent two days watching free movies, eating free room service and passing the rest of the time as they, uh, saw fit. The Eagles opened their practice facility for a brief walk-through Monday. It's impossible to predict how the Vikings will react to the delay. Did they address two consecutive embarrassing performances in their time together in closed quarters? Or were they marking lines on the wall, keeping track of every minute that brought them closer to rescue? Tonight will mark the 20th game in NFL history to be played on a Tuesday, but the first since 1946. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, that game -- between the New York Giants and Boston Yanks -- had been postponed for one day because of rain. So we are in uncharted waters here.

2. Know your history: There are all kinds of conspiracy theories about why this game was pushed back two days. (Apparently it sounds too convenient to cite National Weather Service forecasts of a blizzard, along with a state of emergency in the city of Philadelphia.) One is that the Eagles didn't think their speed-based offense would be at its best in the snow. I can only hope that isn't true. As we noted in what was expected to be our Final Word on this game, the Vikings have only one victory in the past 20 seasons in a prime-time game when the temperature at kickoff was below 40 degrees. Current forecasts call for 30 degrees at 8 p.m. ET in Philadelphia. The Vikings are 1-6 in such circumstances since 1991. After playing in a dome for 28 years, they are at a consistent and undeniable disadvantage in any and all cold-weather venues. The Eagles need not be concerned about the details.

3. FavreWatch: Another conspiracy theory suggests the NFL wanted to give Vikings quarterback Brett Favre (concussion) enough time to be cleared to start. (Perhaps that would be his discipline for sending inappropriate photos and text messages to a former New York Jets sideline reporter.) Seriously, Favre wasn't cleared as of Saturday, and ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported there were no plans to give him another round of concussion tests in Philadelphia. But to be fair. the Vikings wouldn't be required to divulge that information because they listed Favre as "doubtful" on their injury report. By definition, that left him a 25 percent chance of playing. It's much more likely that rookie Joe Webb will get his first NFL start, but don't forget this tidbit: If Favre does start, he would break the record he currently shares with Warren Moon and Vinny Testaverde for most starts after turning 40.

4. FrazierWatch: Interim coach Leslie Frazier has faced the mother of all curveballs in the past three weeks, trying to demonstrate his qualifications for the permanent job while the franchise literally collapsed around him. The Vikings won his first two games but have mailed it in since the Metrodome roof collapse. Should those performances count against Frazier? Does he get a pass under the circumstances? Those questions are difficult to answer, but owner Zygi Wilf will have to render judgment over the next 10 days.

5. Money matters: This delay added to the financial issues the Vikings must sort out in the coming weeks. They've already lost game-day revenue associated with their past two "home" games, and University of Minnesota officials suggested the Vikings paid more than $700,000 to prepare TCF Bank Stadium for their Dec. 20 game against the Chicago Bears. I couldn't begin to estimate how much the Vikings had to pay out to house their team for two extra nights in a hotel, among other associated charges, but I would think it's not insignificant.

There has been a lot of talk in the Carolina media about how fans will respond to coach John Fox in what will be his final home game as coach of the Panthers. Newspapers, radio stations and websites are running polls and asking fans if they’ll boo or cheer Fox.

We’ve written tons all year on how things have deteriorated to this point, and we’ll probably do it some more because the Panthers have two more games after Sunday’s game with Arizona. We’ll probably get into Fox’s fall even more when he officially takes the fall.

But let’s just stay in the moment here. When I looked around and saw those polls, I asked myself what I would do if I were a Carolina fan sitting in Bank of America Stadium when Fox’s name is announced or his face is shown on the video screen.

It didn’t take me long to come up with my answer. I definitely would cheer for Fox. I’m not talking a two-minute standing ovation or chanting his name throughout the game. But a few claps and some genuine warmth are warranted. In fact, I think it’s the least Carolina fans can do for Fox.

Things are ending badly and Fox is definitely not without fault in all this mess. But the reason I’d clap for Fox is simple: I’m not looking at how things are ending. I’m looking at the total body of work.

Fox had a pretty nice run in Carolina. He’s not the best coach in NFL history. But he is the best coach in Carolina history – by far – and that alone should have earned Fox some respect from fans.

Yes, the guy could frustrate the heck out of you. His offense was maddeningly conservative. His reluctance to say much of anything in front of cameras or recorders was beyond frustrating, because you know there’s a very gregarious guy behind his public front.

But Fox was consistent from start to finish and, although that’s part of the reason for his downfall, it’s also part of the reason Fox had a nine-season run in Carolina. If you last nine seasons in any one place in the NFL, you’re doing something right.

Fox did plenty of things right at various times. He took the 2003 Panthers all the way to the Super Bowl, two seasons after George Seifert’s 1-15 mess. Fox might have had his best coaching season in 2005. It seemed like Carolina had about 12 running backs get hurt and Fox and his staff still coached the heck out of that team all the way to the NFC Championship Game.

Those were the good times and you already know about the bad. Through it all, Fox was consistent – at times, too consistent. But, overall, consistency isn’t a bad trait to have in a coach or a person.

Fox wasn’t one of those guys who is up one minute or down the next. He was a pro throughout, and that’s why I think he deserves a cheer.

I’ll also share one little behind-the-scenes story with you that might help show you that Fox is much more human and sensitive than he lets on. Toward the end of the 2007 season, which wasn’t a banner campaign for Fox as the Panthers limped through a season playing the likes of David Carr and Vinny Testaverde, I had accepted an offer to come to ESPN.com soon after I finished covering that season for The Charlotte Observer.

On the day I told Carolina public relations director Charlie Dayton and general manager Marty Hurney that I would be leaving, I was standing in the locker room a bit later. Fox, who rarely comes into the locker room during the media session and certainly had more important things on his mind, suddenly came bouncing in, smiling and calling my name. He congratulated me and thanked me for my time and efforts covering the Panthers. It meant a lot.

That’s why, if I could be a fan in Bank of America Stadium on Sunday, there is no question I would cheer for Fox.

Two of the NFL's hottest rivalries will take center stage in Week 13. Lucky for us.

The Pittsburgh Steelers will visit the Baltimore Ravens on Sunday night. The New York Jets then will visit the New England Patriots on Monday night. Combined record of the four teams: 34-10.

Millions of football fans will be tuned in to see both marquee matchups with superstars and storylines aplenty.

But which pairing represents the NFL's best divisional rivalry?

Each matchup has a history, quality quarterbacks and plenty at stake for the playoffs. A couple of feisty bloggers -- James Walker from the AFC North and Tim Graham from the AFC East -- will state a case for why his division has the better rivalry.

James Walker: Tim, I just want to apologize in advance, because I don’t think you have much of a leg to stand on comparing these two rivalries. Do you accept my apology?

Tim Graham: If that's really what you think, then the only thing to accept is your resignation. The Jets-Patriots rivalry goes back 50 years, showcases ESPN's team of the decade versus the biggest media sensation, involves espionage, features incredible player and coaching crossover and will generate significantly more attention this week than the Steelers and Ravens. Yet I don't have a leg to stand on? This should be amusing.

Walker: OK, let's get down to business. First, I'm going to tell you why the Jets-Patriots rivalry doesn't stack up to Ravens-Steelers. For starters, the Jets aren't even the Patriots’ biggest rival in the AFC. The Colts are. Indianapolis and New England have played eight straight years in much bigger games -- sometimes with the Super Bowl at stake.

Meanwhile, there is no debating the Steelers and Ravens are each other's biggest rival. Both teams have played on the biggest stages, including the AFC Championship Game in 2008, when the Steelers went on to win Super Bowl XLIII. Finally, here's another difference: Pittsburgh and Baltimore both have championships within the past decade. When both rivals are able to reach the pinnacle while beating up each other along the way, that's when a rivalry is truly special. The Ravens and Steelers have it. The Colts and Patriots have it. The Jets and Patriots? I don't think so.

Graham: Your opinion about the Colts representing a bigger rival than the Jets would be pertinent if the Patriots agreed with it. Tom Brady earlier this year declared "I hate the Jets," and he wasn't joking. The Patriots play the Jets twice a year. Division games are worth more than any other game in terms of importance. A Patriots-Colts game is more like a playoff exhibition.

You do make a good point about the Ravens and Steelers each winning a Super Bowl in the past decade. But recent titles don't necessarily make rivalries. If they did, then the Packers, Vikings and Bears don't have rivalries. Storylines and animus make rivalries. In that regard, Jets-Patriots is unsurpassed.

Walker: Brady says he hates the Jets, but a rivalry is a two-way street. How much hatred does New York really have for the Patriots? It can't be too deep-rooted. Most of New York's key people recently came from the AFC North and other teams, including head coach Rex Ryan. I'd be willing to bet Santonio Holmes hates the Ravens more than he hates the Patriots. I know Bart Scott hates the Steelers. We've talked about it several times while he was in Baltimore. Braylon Edwards? He hyped his return to Cleveland 10 times more than this week's game against New England. Do you really think key players like Edwards, LaDainian Tomlinson and Antonio Cromartie have a feel for the Jets-Patriots rivalry? I doubt it.

But there is legitimate, two-way hatred between the Steelers and Ravens. Hines Ward hates the Ravens. Ray Lewis hates the Steelers. The markets of Pittsburgh and Baltimore simply cannot drive the point home like bigger cities New York and Boston can. For example, Ravens defensive end Terrell Suggs basically told me he doesn't like the Steelers, either, which is similar to what Brady said about the Jets. Yet it didn't get any attention. The Jets-Patriots rivalry may be unsurpassed in hype. But the Ravens-Steelers rivalry is unsurpassed in substance.

Graham: Come on, James. You need to do more than take a glance at 2010 rosters to understand the Jets-Patriots rivalry. Every team has free agents who need to learn a rivalry. The point about Brady's hatred was that he never said that about the Colts, which you propose is a bigger rival for the Patriots than the Jets are.

But you want substance? How about Bill Parcells taking the Patriots to the Super Bowl and then leaving them for the Jets amid such controversial circumstances the NFL forced New York to send four draft picks to the Patriots over three years, including the first-round pick in 1999, as a penalty? How about the infamous Curtis Martin defection from the Patriots to the Jets and the infamous "poison pill" contract? How about Parcells abdicating his Jets job to Bill Belichick and then Belichick writing his resignation on a cocktail napkin moments before the Jets thought they were introducing him as their next head coach? How about the Jets blocking Belichick from joining the Patriots until he filed a federal lawsuit and then settling on the Patriots shipping five draft picks to the Jets over three years, including their 2000 first-rounder? How about Patriots defensive coordinator Eric Mangini departing to be Jets head coach and leaving the bridge in cinders? How about the Patriots filing tampering charges against the Jets on receiver Deion Branch? How about a little thing called Spygate? How about Damien Woody, Danny Woodhead, Ty Law, Vinny Testaverde, Roman Phifer, Larry Izzo, Hank Poteat and Chris Baker (among many other role players) wearing both uniforms within the past decade? Steelers-Ravens has nothing even remotely close to a third of that rundown.

Walker: Why you think playing for both teams makes it more of a rivalry is beyond me. I think it lessens your argument. I can't imagine Ed Reed or Lewis wearing a Steelers jersey. Ward would never sign a deal to play for the Ravens. Not in a million years. These two teams hate each other too much. Yet all these Jets and Patriots players simply flip-flop between teams at their leisure? That’s weak and not the sign of a hated rivalry, in my opinion.

Graham: That's rather Pollyanna to think Ravens would never go play for the Steelers or vice versa. Do you honestly believe if the Steelers had hired Ryan, then all of those players who followed him to the Jets wouldn't have gone to Pittsburgh? Please. Players pursue the best opportunity based on money, playing a system they love and a chance to win a title.

Here is how players switching teams make for a better rivalry: It thickens the plot. Fans who used to wear a player's jersey burn them. The expatriate player shares playbook secrets and other intelligence. That player has a chip on his shoulder and comes back to haunt his old team.

Walker: Moving onto quarterbacks. I think there are some similarities between the teams' four passers. Joe Flacco is the third-year upstart trying to get to the championship level of Ben Roethlisberger, who already has two rings. Much of Flacco's status eventually will be determined by how much success he has against Roethlisberger and the Steelers within his division. It seems the Ravens and Steelers are always in the way and have to go through each other to have a deep run in the playoffs and get to the Super Bowl. What dynamic do you see developing with Brady and a young Mark Sanchez?

Graham: I don't know if there's much of a quarterback comparison beyond the glamour element at this stage. Brady and Sanchez have a lot in common from an off-the-field standpoint. They sell a lot of jerseys, attract a lot of ladies, walk a lot of red carpets, appear in a lot of photo shoots and do a lot of cameos. But they're too far apart in experience to compare résumés.

I see the Jets and Patriots as more of a fan base and organizational rivalry: teams from two of the greatest sports markets, with two of the NFL's most influential owners, and two of the best defensive coaches in the game -- heck, two of the most controversial coaches of this generation. Ever since Ryan took over as Jets head coach, he has been tweaking Belichick. Some thought the rivalry would wane when the Jets fired Mangini, but Ryan -- a guy who helped build the Steelers-Ravens rivalry, by the way -- came along and made it juicier.

Walker: Now is our favorite part. It's prediction time. It's no secret the Steelers and Ravens are built and play similarly. So it's usually a close game. Baltimore is going for its first series sweep since 2006, but Roethlisberger didn't play in the first meeting because of a suspension. Now he's back and is 7-2 all-time against Baltimore. But I have a feeling this is the Ravens' week. They are healthier overall, 5-0 at home and appear to be peaking at the right time. The Steelers, on the other hand, have been up and down. Both teams usually bring out the best in each other, but I'm picking the Ravens to win, 20-17. So who are you picking between the Patriots and Jets, Tim? Don't chicken out.

Graham: I predict the loser of the Jets-Patriots game will have the same record as the team that wins the Ravens-Steelers game. Predicting a score has no bearing on our debate of which rivalry is better. But I will say the Jets and Patriots provide a rare showdown between teams with the NFL's best two records. This is only the fifth time in "Monday Night Football" history two clubs with records of 9-2 or better will play, and the first game under those circumstances that doesn't involve the Joe Montana-led San Francisco 49ers in Candlestick Park.

This is a special game befitting a special rivalry. Your game features clubs that needed overtime to beat the Buffalo Bills. I'll expect that resignation letter by kickoff.

Some very interesting news out of Carolina this afternoon. Coach John Fox announced Brian St. Pierre will be the starting quarterback for Sunday’s game with Baltimore.

Say whatever you want about it because the alternative was rookie Tony Pike, a 2010 sixth-round draft pick. But I’m going to say this is a terrible move by Fox and it might even be a final act of defiance for a lame-duck coach.

St. Pierre’s a guy who has bounced around the NFL for eight seasons. He’s thrown a total of five passes in regular-season games. He’s about to turn 31. St. Pierre has had so little real NFL experience that he was still eligible for the practice squad when the Panthers signed him a couple of weeks ago.

Look, if anybody in the NFL thought St. Pierre had a legitimate shot to be a starting quarterback, he would have had his shot long ago. He’s nothing more than a guy and this is further evidence of why Fox is on his way out in Carolina.

Although he’s done some great things for the Panthers, the one thing Fox never has been willing to do is change. He’s as conservative as they come. Yes, St. Pierre may have been around longer than Pike. But you don’t make a move like this when you’re in a full-blown youth movement.

Back in 2007 when Jake Delhomme got hurt and it was becoming obvious David Carr couldn’t play, Fox coaxed 79-year-old Vinny Testaverde out of retirement. That made sense. The Panthers had a pretty good team otherwise and they were able to scrape out a respectable season around a dinosaur.

But St. Pierre is no Testaverde and this isn’t 2007. Fox has refused to embrace the youth movement the Panthers decided to go with.

I’m not saying Pike is great by any means and he probably wouldn’t solve all of Carolina’s problems. But, much like Jimmy Clausen, who was benched once and is out this week with a concussion, Pike was a draft pick this year.

Part of the plan by ownership and the front office was to see what they’ve got in their young guys. Now that the Panthers are so far out of the playoff picture, that should be the plan more than ever.

Maybe Pike steps in and turns out to be the next Tom Brady. It’s not likely, but it’s at least possible. We already know for sure that St. Pierre is not the next Brady. Why not at least give Pike a look?

Fox is a good coach in a lot of ways. He’ll end up being a coach somewhere else and he’ll probably have success.

But Fox isn’t doing any favors for a front office and an owner who feel Fox didn’t do them any favors by starting this youth movement. He’s being stubborn and conservative until the end and that’s not how you handle a youth movement.

Just look at Tampa Bay’s Raheem Morris. He embraced the youth movement, threw his young guys out there and tried to figure out who could play. That led to some very rough times last year. Now, the Buccaneers are winning and seeing the upside of the youth movement.

The Panthers won’t see any upside from their youth movement until the next coach is in place.

The news just keeps getting worse for the Carolina Panthers. Coach John Fox said Monday that quarterback Matt Moore and middle linebacker Dan Connor will miss the rest of the season after both were injured in Sunday’s loss to New Orleans. The Panthers have decided not to activate linebacker Thomas Davis off the physically unable to perform list and he also will be added to the injured reserve list.

With Moore out, Fox isn’t saying if he’ll start Jimmy Clausen or Tony Pike on Sunday in Tampa Bay. Neither rookie is a particularly attractive option. Clausen hasn’t been a Fox favorite and Pike got his first NFL action with some mop-up duty against New Orleans.

Fox said the Panthers likely will sign a quarterback. But I wouldn’t expect it to be a situation like 2007, when the Panthers brought Vinny Testaverde out of retirement. Fox’s hands are tied on this one because ownership and management have committed to a youth movement. The Panthers are likely to sign a relatively young quarterback.

Although it’s highly unlikely Fox will be coaching this team next year, he’s probably going to get some pressure from above to play Clausen the rest of the way. The Panthers need to find out what they have in Clausen because they might have to draft a quarterback early next year.

The Connor injury is a blow to a linebacker corps that has been a bright spot. Jon Beason will have to move back to the middle after playing the first half of the season on the weak side. The Panthers will try Nic Harris and Jordan Senn on the weak side.

The decision to shut down Davis is a wise one. Davis wanted to come back from his second major knee injury in less than a year. Although he’s not under contract for next season, he’s a talented player and still could be in Carolina’s plans. There’s no sense in risking the rest of his career in this dismal season.

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Two games into his ninth season as coach of the Carolina Panthers, John Fox clearly is at a crossroads. Heck, he might even be past it.

It’s that bad, really. The point of no return, if one actually still existed, may have come Sunday. Fox doesn’t have a contract beyond this season, he doesn’t have a win yet this season and he sure as heck doesn’t have a quarterback.

If you looked around Bank of America Stadium at the end of Carolina’s 20-7 loss to Tampa Bay, it looked a lot like it did -- almost empty and virtually silent -- on the last day of the 2001 season when the Panthers finished 1-15.

A day later, owner Jerry Richardson walked into a news conference to announce George Seifert had been fired and talked about how the life had been drained from the franchise. A few weeks later, Richardson hired Fox, who brought life to the Panthers and kept them competitive for quite some time.

Now, it’s almost back to Seifert territory.

Fox has no choice now. He needs to start Jimmy Clausen at quarterback next week at Cincinnati. It’s really the only chance he has to save his job, and it would also be the only decision to make to give himself a better shot at other jobs. He needs to pull the plug now.

“It’s way too early,’’ Fox said moments after the game. “Right now, I can’t make that decision at this point. Matt [Moore] has not been benched by any stretch. We’ll go with whoever gives us the best chance to win next week and that will take some time [to decide].’’

It’s not way too early to make a decision that really shouldn’t take any time at all. The concept of giving Moore, a former undrafted free agent, a chance at the starting job seemed like a nice idea when he finished strong after replacing Jake Delhomme late last season.

But as nice as it is that Fox believes in loyalty and rewarding guys who have earned a chance, and as much as he despises the idea of playing rookie quarterbacks or even drafting them early, the rest of the world had to know this moment would come the instant the Panthers drafted Clausen in the second round in April.

In a best-case scenario, Fox thought Moore might be what Delhomme once was -- a capable quarterback who didn’t turn the ball over --- and he could squeeze a season or two out of a game manager while Clausen took notes.

Once upon a time, Fox might have been able to do that with a ball-control offense and a great defense surrounding an ordinary quarterback. But times have changed on so many levels in Carolina. Despite having Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams and an offensive line that’s supposed to be great, the Panthers haven’t shown any evidence of a ball-control offense in the first two games. The Panthers are young all over, largely because that's what their owner wants, especially on defense. On that side of the ball, the fans who bought into an impressive preseason by the defense bought into a mirage.

As Fox likes to say, “It is what it is.’’ What the Panthers are is an extremely young team with a coach and an owner that obviously haven’t been on the same page for a while and a general manager (Marty Hurney) who seems to be caught somewhere in a very uncomfortable middle.

“I don’t think that’s the place of a player,’’ said wide receiver Steve Smith, when asked who he thought should start at quarterback next week. “That’s up to the coaches and management.’’

Smith’s right, and that should be a decision where everyone’s on the same page. It should be a no-brainer. It should be Clausen. Let’s face it, Moore threw three interceptions against the Giants in the opener. He threw only one against the Bucs, but he completed only six of 16 passes for 125 yards and was sacked four times.

The offense sputtered. Moore doesn’t deserve all the blame, but he’s the quarterback Fox chose, so he’s going to get it.

Has Moore lost the confidence of his teammates, if he ever had it?

“I didn’t really take a poll to find out,’’ Smith said.

There’s no need for a poll. Moore’s a nice guy and he has tried hard. There was a time when Fox could take a guy like Rodney Peete or some combination of Vinny Testaverde, David Carr and even a young Moore and scrape together a 7-9 or 8-8 season and that would be enough to save his job.

A record like that wouldn’t be good enough to get Fox a new contract now and besides, this team, as it stands right now, isn’t good enough to get to any record like that. Moore’s not going to save Carolina’s season or Fox’s job.

Clausen?

Well, it’s a long shot that he’ll come in and make everything right forever and ever. But he did move the team a bit after replacing Moore late in the game. With Moore, there’s no longer any hope of an upside. With Clausen, that idea still exists.

There are people in the building who are very high on Clausen and that group includes the owner and general manager. Fox has to join them for at least the next 14 games, even though it's likely Clausen will be with this franchise long after Fox.

Look, this probably was going to be Fox’s last season in Carolina no matter what. In his dream scenario, the Panthers would have gone 10-6 or 11-5 with Moore, gone to the playoffs and Richardson would come offering a new contract. In that same dream, Fox would have turned and said, “Thanks for everything, but I’m off to coach the Giants … or the Browns … or somebody else.’’

Take a shot on Clausen and maybe the Panthers pull of some sort of miracle in the middle of their youth movement. It would put everyone back on the same page.

That’s not a real likely ending now. But Fox no longer is coaching for his future with the Panthers. He’s coaching for his coaching future.

Forget Richardson for just a minute and think about other owners. Fox has a good reputation around the league and a decent resume. The knocks on him are that he hasn’t been able to put together back-to-back winning seasons and that he’s too stubborn or set in his ways.

Sticking with Moore would only enforce that stereotype and it might even force other owners to question Fox’s sanity. There’s really only one choice.

Start Clausen next week.

Does Drew Bledsoe belong in the Pro Football Hall of Fame?

The numbers suggest he does.

The numbers, however, also show Hall of Fame milestones are changing.

In a piece for "The Fifth Down" blog at NYTimes.com, quarterback statistician Luis DeLoureiro takes a look at the traditional assurances for induction. In the past multiple championships or 40,000 yards passing have meant an automatic bronze bust in Canton.

All seven quarterbacks who've been eligible for the Hall and have thrown for 40,000 yards have gotten in. Two more are active and should enter on the first ballot: Brett Favre and Peyton Manning.

Dan Marino, Warren Moon, Fran Tarkenton and Dan Fouts didn't win titles. Moon and Fouts never appeared in a Super Bowl.

So what about Bledsoe?

He threw for 44,611 yards and 251 touchdowns in 14 seasons with the New England Patriots, Buffalo Bills and Dallas Cowboys. He reached two Super Bowls with the Patriots, losing as a starter and winning as Tom Brady's backup.

But everyone knows the NFL has evolved. Passing numbers are prolific compared to 10 years ago.

New York Jets and Patriots quarterback Vinny Testaverde is another example. He threw for even more yards than Bledsoe did. The Heisman Trophy winner rolled up 46,233 yards and 275 touchdowns, ranking among the top eight all-time in each category

DeLoureiro, who also writes for NFLStatAnalysis.net, noted the only two quarterbacks of the Super Bowl era to enter the Hall of Fame without 40,000 yards or multiple championships were Steve Young and Jim Kelly.

Both presented special cases. Young started only eight seasons and was a two-time league MVP. Kelly took the Bills to four straight Super Bowls.

Tom Donahoe, the former Bills general manager, use to refer to Bledsoe as a future Hall of Famer, a comment that always sounded ridiculous to me.

It still does.