Stanford Football: Coby Fleener
Lots of mailbag to catch up on. Will try to squeeze out a few more later in the week. For now, to the questions.
Eric in San Francisco writes: You mentioned that it remains to be seen if the three-tight-end plan can continue. It seems that if there was a "next up" young tight end that was sharp enough, then we might be able to hang on to some of those great plays in the playbook. Who is "next up" in the tight end position, and could they be good enough to preserve that 3 TE plan?
Kevin Gemmell: I don't think it's as much the actual playbook as it is the players -- specifically what Coby Fleener was able to do in the offense and the way he could exploit almost every defender who tried to cover him. Stanford has other tight ends -- but no one who is 6-foot-6, 250 pounds and out-run cornerbacks and out-jump safeties. Levine Toilolo and Zach Ertz will continue to bring what they bring -- phenomenal athleticism for their size -- but neither is as fast as Fleener. And to their credit, I think Ertz has better hands than Fleener and I think Toilolo was a better blocker. That's what made the three of them so great. No one on the roster has Fleener's rare combination of size and speed. I do think we'll see some special packages with Ryan Hewitt as a third tight end and Geoff Meinken at fullback. And we have to see if David Dudchock steps up. I don't think the scheme is going to change -- but without Fleener splitting the middle on the deep go route, it's not going to look as pretty.
Scott in Redwood City, Calif., writes: No, I haven't been predicting a national championship for the 2012 Card. However, I do think they'll be darn good, maybe even great. And then I heard it mentioned somewhere that Tennessee - in its first season without Peyton Manning - won the national title in 1998. So, would you care to get me all goofy and tell me how many other parallels there are between the '98 Vols and '12 Card?
Kevin Gemmell: Well, hmmm. Tennessee started the year ranked No. 10 in the AP poll. I'd imagine Stanford will be anywhere between 10-15. Both teams are/were pro-style offenses. Tennessee faced the No. 2 team in the country in Week 2. Stanford might face the No. 2 team in the country in Week 3. Uhm, let's see... both schools have well-regarded women's basketball programs ... "S" and "T" are consecutive letters in the alphabet ... I don't know. I got nothing else ... have fun with that one, though.
John in Phoenix writes: All things being equal, wouldn't it make more sense to give Brett Nottingham the nod to be the starter over Josh Nunes given he has another year of eligibility?
Kevin Gemmell: In my experience, all things being equal rarely happens. One of the two will step up (or slip up) in the fall and someone will emerge as the starter. I'm just not sure which one. I've heard good things (and bad) about both from people in the know. My best guess though, is that whoever wins it will be keeping it warm for Ryan Burns. If they approach Burns the way they did Andrew Luck, he'll sit out his first year, which means he won't take the helm until 2014. Eligibility won't matter by that point. If you're Stanford, you want to win now and continue to capitalize on the momentum of back-to-back BCS appearances and a monster recruiting class. If that means swapping quarterbacks in consecutive years, so be it. Do what you can to win now and keep the ball rolling.
Alan in Palo Alto writes: Any plans to retire Luck's number?
Kevin Gemmell: None that I've heard, but you have to imagine it's coming -- and the sooner the better. From here on out, there should only be one No. 12 in the minds of Stanford fans.
Eric in San Francisco writes: You mentioned that it remains to be seen if the three-tight-end plan can continue. It seems that if there was a "next up" young tight end that was sharp enough, then we might be able to hang on to some of those great plays in the playbook. Who is "next up" in the tight end position, and could they be good enough to preserve that 3 TE plan?
Kevin Gemmell: I don't think it's as much the actual playbook as it is the players -- specifically what Coby Fleener was able to do in the offense and the way he could exploit almost every defender who tried to cover him. Stanford has other tight ends -- but no one who is 6-foot-6, 250 pounds and out-run cornerbacks and out-jump safeties. Levine Toilolo and Zach Ertz will continue to bring what they bring -- phenomenal athleticism for their size -- but neither is as fast as Fleener. And to their credit, I think Ertz has better hands than Fleener and I think Toilolo was a better blocker. That's what made the three of them so great. No one on the roster has Fleener's rare combination of size and speed. I do think we'll see some special packages with Ryan Hewitt as a third tight end and Geoff Meinken at fullback. And we have to see if David Dudchock steps up. I don't think the scheme is going to change -- but without Fleener splitting the middle on the deep go route, it's not going to look as pretty.
Scott in Redwood City, Calif., writes: No, I haven't been predicting a national championship for the 2012 Card. However, I do think they'll be darn good, maybe even great. And then I heard it mentioned somewhere that Tennessee - in its first season without Peyton Manning - won the national title in 1998. So, would you care to get me all goofy and tell me how many other parallels there are between the '98 Vols and '12 Card?
Kevin Gemmell: Well, hmmm. Tennessee started the year ranked No. 10 in the AP poll. I'd imagine Stanford will be anywhere between 10-15. Both teams are/were pro-style offenses. Tennessee faced the No. 2 team in the country in Week 2. Stanford might face the No. 2 team in the country in Week 3. Uhm, let's see... both schools have well-regarded women's basketball programs ... "S" and "T" are consecutive letters in the alphabet ... I don't know. I got nothing else ... have fun with that one, though.
John in Phoenix writes: All things being equal, wouldn't it make more sense to give Brett Nottingham the nod to be the starter over Josh Nunes given he has another year of eligibility?
Kevin Gemmell: In my experience, all things being equal rarely happens. One of the two will step up (or slip up) in the fall and someone will emerge as the starter. I'm just not sure which one. I've heard good things (and bad) about both from people in the know. My best guess though, is that whoever wins it will be keeping it warm for Ryan Burns. If they approach Burns the way they did Andrew Luck, he'll sit out his first year, which means he won't take the helm until 2014. Eligibility won't matter by that point. If you're Stanford, you want to win now and continue to capitalize on the momentum of back-to-back BCS appearances and a monster recruiting class. If that means swapping quarterbacks in consecutive years, so be it. Do what you can to win now and keep the ball rolling.
Alan in Palo Alto writes: Any plans to retire Luck's number?
Kevin Gemmell: None that I've heard, but you have to imagine it's coming -- and the sooner the better. From here on out, there should only be one No. 12 in the minds of Stanford fans.
2011 record: 11-2
2011 conference record: 8-1 (2nd, North)
Returning starters: Offense: 6; defense: 7; kicker/punter 1
Top returners
RB Stepfan Taylor, OLB Chase Thomas, LB Shayne Skov, FB Ryan Hewitt, C Sam Schwartzstein, OG David Yankey, OT Cameron Fleming, DE Ben Gardner, TE Zach Ertz, TE Levine Toilolo.
Key losses
QB Andrew Luck, OL David DeCastro, OL Jonathan Martin, S Delano Howell, DE Matt Masifilo, WR Chris Owusu, TE Coby Fleener, S Michael Thomas.
2011 statistical leaders* (returners)
Rushing: Stepfan Taylor* (1,330 yards)
Passing: Andrew Luck (3,517 yards)
Receiving: Griff Whalen (749 yards)
Tackles: Jarek Lancaster* (70)
Sacks: Chase Thomas* (8.5)
Interceptions: Michael Thomas (3)
Spring answers
1. And then there were two: The pack of five has been funneled down to two quarterbacks competing to replace Andrew Luck, the No. 1 overall pick in the 2012 NFL draft. There are plenty of questions left (see below) but at least we know that it's not a three-, four- or five-man race heading into spring. Brett Nottingham and Josh Nunes clearly separated themselves from the rest of the pack. That's a start.
2. Running back depth: In case Stepfan Taylor gets the flu, and Tyler Gaffney trips over his batting gloves, and Anthony Wilkerson stubs his toe, we know the Cardinal still have a viable running back option in Ricky Seale, who impressed Shaw this spring with his vision, quickness and elusiveness. Oh yeah, there's a Barry something or other coming in the fall whose supposed to be a pretty good running back. RB depth is not a concern.
3. Scary front seven: The Cardinal have so much talent and depth at defensive line and linebacker that defensive coordinator Derek Mason has to be scratching his head on how to get everybody in. Linebacker James Vaugthers is a star on the rise -- but that means taking reps away from A.J. Tarpley and Jarek Lancaster. Chase Thomas and Trent Murphy are two of the best at what they do. Stanford's run defense was really good last year. It could be great this year.
Fall questions
1. Who's the guy? Nunes or Nottingham? Nottingham or Nunes? That's the question everyone will be asking on the Farm for the next few months. This might be the most intriguing quarterback competition in the country. But the Cardinal don't need a 50-attempt guy. They need someone who can put them in the best play against the right defense and hand off to Stepfan Taylor. Then repeat. Repeat. Repeat. And then pop a play-action to Ty Montgomery, Zach Ertz or Levine Toilolo.
2. The Fleener factor: Much of Stanford's offensive success came from the three-tight-end formations, which included Coby Fleener, Ertz and Toilolo. In fact, about 35 percent of the offensive playbook is triple-tight sets. How much does that change with Fleener's departure to the NFL? Ertz and Toilolo are both outstanding tight ends in their own right. But the three of them together was something special.
3. Drop-off? Aren't you tired of reading about the drop-off Stanford is going to suffer with the graduation of Luck? Well, so are the players. Several have said off the record that it's a great motivational tool because they believe the defense and running game are stronger than they've ever been. Whatever the public thinks, it hasn't penetrated the locker room. Not yet, anyway.
2011 conference record: 8-1 (2nd, North)
Returning starters: Offense: 6; defense: 7; kicker/punter 1
Top returners
RB Stepfan Taylor, OLB Chase Thomas, LB Shayne Skov, FB Ryan Hewitt, C Sam Schwartzstein, OG David Yankey, OT Cameron Fleming, DE Ben Gardner, TE Zach Ertz, TE Levine Toilolo.
Key losses
QB Andrew Luck, OL David DeCastro, OL Jonathan Martin, S Delano Howell, DE Matt Masifilo, WR Chris Owusu, TE Coby Fleener, S Michael Thomas.
2011 statistical leaders* (returners)
Rushing: Stepfan Taylor* (1,330 yards)
Passing: Andrew Luck (3,517 yards)
Receiving: Griff Whalen (749 yards)
Tackles: Jarek Lancaster* (70)
Sacks: Chase Thomas* (8.5)
Interceptions: Michael Thomas (3)
Spring answers
1. And then there were two: The pack of five has been funneled down to two quarterbacks competing to replace Andrew Luck, the No. 1 overall pick in the 2012 NFL draft. There are plenty of questions left (see below) but at least we know that it's not a three-, four- or five-man race heading into spring. Brett Nottingham and Josh Nunes clearly separated themselves from the rest of the pack. That's a start.
2. Running back depth: In case Stepfan Taylor gets the flu, and Tyler Gaffney trips over his batting gloves, and Anthony Wilkerson stubs his toe, we know the Cardinal still have a viable running back option in Ricky Seale, who impressed Shaw this spring with his vision, quickness and elusiveness. Oh yeah, there's a Barry something or other coming in the fall whose supposed to be a pretty good running back. RB depth is not a concern.
3. Scary front seven: The Cardinal have so much talent and depth at defensive line and linebacker that defensive coordinator Derek Mason has to be scratching his head on how to get everybody in. Linebacker James Vaugthers is a star on the rise -- but that means taking reps away from A.J. Tarpley and Jarek Lancaster. Chase Thomas and Trent Murphy are two of the best at what they do. Stanford's run defense was really good last year. It could be great this year.
Fall questions
1. Who's the guy? Nunes or Nottingham? Nottingham or Nunes? That's the question everyone will be asking on the Farm for the next few months. This might be the most intriguing quarterback competition in the country. But the Cardinal don't need a 50-attempt guy. They need someone who can put them in the best play against the right defense and hand off to Stepfan Taylor. Then repeat. Repeat. Repeat. And then pop a play-action to Ty Montgomery, Zach Ertz or Levine Toilolo.
2. The Fleener factor: Much of Stanford's offensive success came from the three-tight-end formations, which included Coby Fleener, Ertz and Toilolo. In fact, about 35 percent of the offensive playbook is triple-tight sets. How much does that change with Fleener's departure to the NFL? Ertz and Toilolo are both outstanding tight ends in their own right. But the three of them together was something special.
3. Drop-off? Aren't you tired of reading about the drop-off Stanford is going to suffer with the graduation of Luck? Well, so are the players. Several have said off the record that it's a great motivational tool because they believe the defense and running game are stronger than they've ever been. Whatever the public thinks, it hasn't penetrated the locker room. Not yet, anyway.
It’s been more than a week since the Indianapolis Colts made Andrew Luck the No. 1 overall pick in the draft. Since then, it’s been a whirlwind of more draft picks (David DeCastro also in the first, Coby Fleener and Jonathan Martinin the second round) and undrafted free agent signings.
One week seems like a long enough moratorium on projecting first-round draft picks. But ESPN.com’s Todd McShay couldn't wait that long. He’s released his way-too-early 2013 first round mock draft
on Wednesday and Stanford linebacker Shayne Skov is projected to go in the first round to the New York Giants -- No. 31 overall.
Naturally, there is only so much credence we can give to this kind of projection this far in advance. After all, wasn’t Fleener supposed to go in the first round to the Giants?
Skov’s projection is an interesting one. Speaking with a couple of different Stanford coaches over the last couple of weeks, all indications are that Skov’s rehabilitation from a severe knee injury suffered in Week 3 against Arizona is progressing as planned.
Unplanned was his DUI arrest, which will continue to hang over the program until head coach David Shaw acts. For the record, Shaw said he would wait until after spring ball before announcing Skov’s punishment because he didn’t want to take away from the team.
But the bigger question is how Skov will perform once he returns to the field. Skov’s commitment to getting back healthy isn’t a question, nor is the mental aspect of the game. But when he goes to the combine and he starts getting poked and prodded and the injury questions come up, there is just no way to know how teams are going to react. Case-in-point: Washington running back Chris Polk, a pretty darn good back who was projected somewhere between the second and third rounds. But questions about his injured shoulders dropped him completely out of the draft.
And since we're projecting him as a first-round pick for kicks and giggles, would he slip by Jim Harbaugh and the San Francisco 49ers in the middle 20s (who didn't think Harbaugh would snatch up Fleener?)
If Skov had never been injured (and for the sake of argument, let’s assume he came back for another year) I would feel a lot more confident projecting him as a first round pick. But until we see how he moves on the field and just how sturdy that surgically-repaired knee really is, putting him in the first round seems a little too far out on a limb even for me.
One week seems like a long enough moratorium on projecting first-round draft picks. But ESPN.com’s Todd McShay couldn't wait that long. He’s released his way-too-early 2013 first round mock draft
Naturally, there is only so much credence we can give to this kind of projection this far in advance. After all, wasn’t Fleener supposed to go in the first round to the Giants?
Skov’s projection is an interesting one. Speaking with a couple of different Stanford coaches over the last couple of weeks, all indications are that Skov’s rehabilitation from a severe knee injury suffered in Week 3 against Arizona is progressing as planned.
Unplanned was his DUI arrest, which will continue to hang over the program until head coach David Shaw acts. For the record, Shaw said he would wait until after spring ball before announcing Skov’s punishment because he didn’t want to take away from the team.
But the bigger question is how Skov will perform once he returns to the field. Skov’s commitment to getting back healthy isn’t a question, nor is the mental aspect of the game. But when he goes to the combine and he starts getting poked and prodded and the injury questions come up, there is just no way to know how teams are going to react. Case-in-point: Washington running back Chris Polk, a pretty darn good back who was projected somewhere between the second and third rounds. But questions about his injured shoulders dropped him completely out of the draft.
And since we're projecting him as a first-round pick for kicks and giggles, would he slip by Jim Harbaugh and the San Francisco 49ers in the middle 20s (who didn't think Harbaugh would snatch up Fleener?)
If Skov had never been injured (and for the sake of argument, let’s assume he came back for another year) I would feel a lot more confident projecting him as a first round pick. But until we see how he moves on the field and just how sturdy that surgically-repaired knee really is, putting him in the first round seems a little too far out on a limb even for me.
For those who don't remember, Andrew Luck and Coby Fleener had a pretty funny exchange in the post-game news conference following a 28-14 win over Notre Dame -- Stanford's 2011 regular season finale.
It was a festive mood. The players were singing (poorly)"Macho Man" in the locker room. Fleener (flowing locks and all) was asked about catching Luck's touchdown that broke John Elway's school record.
"I think it's something I'll be able to tell my kids and grand kids when I'm watching Andrew on T.V. someday," Fleener replied.
Luck rolled his eyes and said: "Like he's not going to be playing. Let's be real."
If only they knew then what they know now. Because now, it's real.
Fleener won't need to buy a television to watch Luck in the NFL. He'll have the true HD, 3D, RealD experience -- catching passes from Luck in Lucas Oil Stadium now that they are both Indianapolis Colts.
"I can't explain how excited I am," Fleener said. "As the draft went on, I knew there was a possibility, but I didn't want to set myself up for a letdown. And then as it got closer and closer I started thinking it could happen. My heart was beating through my chest when my phone rang and there was a huge smile on my face."
That's exactly how it should be.
Are they headed for Joe Montana-to-Jerry Rice-levels? Probably not. But Peyton Manning-to-Dallas Clark status? It's not impossible to imagine that in a few years.
Wide receiver Griff Whalen also signed on with the Colts as an undrafted free agent and they give Luck something he wouldn't otherwise have -- familiar faces; guys in the locker room he can pull aside and shoot the proverbial manure with; someone to go over the playbook with and bounce ideas off of. Luck can crack a nerd nation joke knowing that at least two guys are going to laugh.
Chances are the Colts are still a couple of seasons away from returning to the upper-echelon of the NFL power rankings. And much of their success -- or failure -- will fall on Luck's shoulders. Fleener will once again have to endure season-after-season of "How is Andrew handling the pressure" questions. But somehow, I don't think he'll mind.
"It's going to be a sacrifice," Fleener joked. "But for the chance to play with Andrew, I think I can make it work."
Luck has never given any indication that he can't handle public scrutiny. But he was also very closely guarded at Stanford. His media exposure was meticulously measured. It's going to be a lot more demanding in the NFL. And now Luck can pull aside a couple of trusted friends and let some stuff off his chest -- if he has to.
On the field, there is a chemistry that is invaluable; a rapport that can only come from a couple hundred practices, thousands of throws and, just guessing here, one or two nights out with the boys. Luck is a better quarterback with Fleener and Whalen on his team. Fleener is a better tight end with Luck as his quarterback. And the Colts are a better team for having the three of them together.
Luck always said his No. 1 reason for returning to Stanford for another year was to earn his degree. His second reason, a very close second, was to have one more season with his guys. Fleener and Whalen are his guys. They are in Luck's closely guarded inner-circle. And sharing meals, ideas and time together in the pros will have an incredibly positive impact.
I remember watching Luck and Fleener hugging it out in the locker room after the Fiesta Bowl loss -- the only time media were allowed into a Stanford locker room all season, per BCS mandate. And I took a mental note, thinking it was the end of a pretty-darn-good pitch-and-catch combo.
Little did we know, that was only the end of the beginning.
It was a festive mood. The players were singing (poorly)"Macho Man" in the locker room. Fleener (flowing locks and all) was asked about catching Luck's touchdown that broke John Elway's school record.
"I think it's something I'll be able to tell my kids and grand kids when I'm watching Andrew on T.V. someday," Fleener replied.
[+] Enlarge
Robert Johnson/Icon SMICoby Fleener will be joining Andrew Luck in Indianapolis.
Robert Johnson/Icon SMICoby Fleener will be joining Andrew Luck in Indianapolis.If only they knew then what they know now. Because now, it's real.
Fleener won't need to buy a television to watch Luck in the NFL. He'll have the true HD, 3D, RealD experience -- catching passes from Luck in Lucas Oil Stadium now that they are both Indianapolis Colts.
"I can't explain how excited I am," Fleener said. "As the draft went on, I knew there was a possibility, but I didn't want to set myself up for a letdown. And then as it got closer and closer I started thinking it could happen. My heart was beating through my chest when my phone rang and there was a huge smile on my face."
That's exactly how it should be.
Are they headed for Joe Montana-to-Jerry Rice-levels? Probably not. But Peyton Manning-to-Dallas Clark status? It's not impossible to imagine that in a few years.
Wide receiver Griff Whalen also signed on with the Colts as an undrafted free agent and they give Luck something he wouldn't otherwise have -- familiar faces; guys in the locker room he can pull aside and shoot the proverbial manure with; someone to go over the playbook with and bounce ideas off of. Luck can crack a nerd nation joke knowing that at least two guys are going to laugh.
Chances are the Colts are still a couple of seasons away from returning to the upper-echelon of the NFL power rankings. And much of their success -- or failure -- will fall on Luck's shoulders. Fleener will once again have to endure season-after-season of "How is Andrew handling the pressure" questions. But somehow, I don't think he'll mind.
"It's going to be a sacrifice," Fleener joked. "But for the chance to play with Andrew, I think I can make it work."
Luck has never given any indication that he can't handle public scrutiny. But he was also very closely guarded at Stanford. His media exposure was meticulously measured. It's going to be a lot more demanding in the NFL. And now Luck can pull aside a couple of trusted friends and let some stuff off his chest -- if he has to.
On the field, there is a chemistry that is invaluable; a rapport that can only come from a couple hundred practices, thousands of throws and, just guessing here, one or two nights out with the boys. Luck is a better quarterback with Fleener and Whalen on his team. Fleener is a better tight end with Luck as his quarterback. And the Colts are a better team for having the three of them together.
Luck always said his No. 1 reason for returning to Stanford for another year was to earn his degree. His second reason, a very close second, was to have one more season with his guys. Fleener and Whalen are his guys. They are in Luck's closely guarded inner-circle. And sharing meals, ideas and time together in the pros will have an incredibly positive impact.
I remember watching Luck and Fleener hugging it out in the locker room after the Fiesta Bowl loss -- the only time media were allowed into a Stanford locker room all season, per BCS mandate. And I took a mental note, thinking it was the end of a pretty-darn-good pitch-and-catch combo.
Little did we know, that was only the end of the beginning.
Three consecutive Heisman Trophy runners-up, two consecutive BCS bowl games and final top-10 rankings: Hey, Stanford's special run of football success was fun to watch. It was neat seeing the most academically elite university playing BCS football whipping the big boys.
But we all know it can't possibly last, right? Jim Harbaugh built it and he's gone. Andrew Luck was a once-in-a-generation quarterback, and he's gone. And he took with him three other offensive players among the first 42 selections in the NFL draft over the weekend.
While the Cardinal certainly had more than 15 minutes of fame, it's time for this program to go back to its familiar brainiac territory -- Faulkner, computer chips and advanced algorithms. Leave big-time football the USCs, Alabamas and Ohio States of the nation.
Yes, such talk has worked its way across the grid, onto the Farm and into the Stanford locker room.
"We've talked about that," coach David Shaw said. "But we've also talked about that there can't be anything outside of our meeting rooms that motivates us. The motivation has to come from within. It's the only way that it is real. The only way that it is legitimate. But we've heard it. We know where we're ranked. But preseason rankings don't matter. Postseason rankings do."
In other words, the Cardinal believe reports of their demise are greatly exaggerated.
"They said the same thing when Toby [Gerhart] left and when Harbaugh left," outside linebacker Chase Thomas said. "We're pretty confident. We know what we bring to the table."
Of course, things change. No team can easily replace four elite NFL draft picks from its offense. That's why Stanford may be more about defense in the early going of 2012. Thomas leads a crew of six returning starters from a unit that ranked among the nation's top 30 in both scoring and total defense. The Cardinal's front seven in their 3-4 scheme appears to be particularly strong. Few teams in the nation will be as deep at linebacker, with Thomas and inside linebacker Shayne Skov both rating as potential All-Americans.
But what about that offense? The competition to replace Luck wasn't resolved this spring, with neither Josh Nunes nor Brett Nottingham demonstrating much consistency. And whoever wins the job won't have tackle Jonathan Martin protecting his blind side, or guard David DeCastro grinding defensive linemen into hamburger, or tight end Coby Fleener sprinting open down the middle with his 6-foot-6 self.
"We will continue our commitment to controlling the line of scrimmage," coordinator Pep Hamilton said. "We're going to run power. I don't see us changing much. If anything, if we have a few more opportunities to run power, we'll do that."
That means leaning on running back Stepfan Taylor, who has rushed for 2,770 yards and 27 TDs over the previous three seasons, and a deep stable of backs. That means leaning on a tight end combination -- Zach Ertz and Levine Toilolo -- that is as good as any in the nation, even without Fleener.
Receiver and offensive line? Those two spots remain questions, though the line will welcome back three starters.
Existing talent, however, doesn't tell the whole story of Stanford's potential for sustaining success. The incoming recruiting class is a significant chapter. Rivals ranked it fifth in the nation, Scout seventh and ESPN Recruiting 12th. No team in the nation came close to collecting as many elite offensive linemen: guard Joshua Garnett (Puyallup, Wash./Puyallup), Andrus Peat (Tempe, Ariz./Corona Del Sol) and offensive tackle Kyle Murphy (San Clemente, Calif./San Clemente).
Shaw isn't afraid to play the young guys, either. True freshmen will get opportunities on both sides of the ball, including the offensive line.
"There's a reason why we recruited a couple of big-timers at those positions," he said. "They will have an opportunity to play if not start at the left tackle position."
Instead of going away, Stanford may well have found a perfect formula that Harbaugh generated and Shaw has refined. Stanford has a lot to sell a certain type of athlete, one who is equal parts brains and brawn. Despite what many folks think about young athletes, there are plenty who want to challenge themselves intellectually before playing football on Sundays.
"This is a special place that attracts a certain kind of person," said Shaw, a former Stanford player himself. "The GPAs in this recruiting class are high, even positions where they are not always high. Our lowest receiver GPA is a 3.4. Not regular GPA, core GPA. These guys are good students and tough kids."
But how fast are they? A 3.4 is nice, but what about 4.4? The one thing that has held Stanford back is a lack of elite speed all over the field, particularly in the secondary and at receiver. Shaw said they "are getting closer" in terms of speed, but he also admitted that the Cardinal -- just like every other Pac-12 program -- have a bit of an Oregon problem. They are 23-1 versus everyone else over the past two seasons, outscoring those foes 1,024-405. Against the Ducks, Stanford is 0-2, outscored 105-61.
Does Stanford have an "Oregon problem?"
"That's a great question," Shaw said. "I'd like to have a survey on your website if anybody has some ideas. Chip [Kelly] does a phenomenal job."
While Shaw is said this in a good-humored way, it's clear that he and his coaches have spent plenty of time thinking about the Ducks. They recall beating them 51-42 in 2009, particularly how they handled the ebbs and flows of momentum. They know it's about preventing big plays and not wasting opportunities on offense. They know it's about tempo, a pitched battle of contrasting styles. Oregon wants to play fast and slash you. Stanford wants to slow things down and pound you.
At least one insider believes Stanford will sustain its recent run of success.
"Absolutely. Hopefully they do better than we did," Luck said. "I think there are a lot of great players here, starting at the top with the coaching staff. Great players, great recruiting classes. They will only continue to get better."
As for what Stanford will be in 2012, its first season of the post-Luck era, Shaw thinks his team will have the same tough-guy persona. But it'll be angrier.
"We're going to go right at people and hit them in the mouth," he said. "And it helps to feel like you're disrespected."
But we all know it can't possibly last, right? Jim Harbaugh built it and he's gone. Andrew Luck was a once-in-a-generation quarterback, and he's gone. And he took with him three other offensive players among the first 42 selections in the NFL draft over the weekend.
While the Cardinal certainly had more than 15 minutes of fame, it's time for this program to go back to its familiar brainiac territory -- Faulkner, computer chips and advanced algorithms. Leave big-time football the USCs, Alabamas and Ohio States of the nation.
[+] Enlarge
Cary Edmondson/US PresswireDavid Shaw expects his team to take on the same tough-guy persona it has in previous years.
Cary Edmondson/US PresswireDavid Shaw expects his team to take on the same tough-guy persona it has in previous years."We've talked about that," coach David Shaw said. "But we've also talked about that there can't be anything outside of our meeting rooms that motivates us. The motivation has to come from within. It's the only way that it is real. The only way that it is legitimate. But we've heard it. We know where we're ranked. But preseason rankings don't matter. Postseason rankings do."
In other words, the Cardinal believe reports of their demise are greatly exaggerated.
"They said the same thing when Toby [Gerhart] left and when Harbaugh left," outside linebacker Chase Thomas said. "We're pretty confident. We know what we bring to the table."
Of course, things change. No team can easily replace four elite NFL draft picks from its offense. That's why Stanford may be more about defense in the early going of 2012. Thomas leads a crew of six returning starters from a unit that ranked among the nation's top 30 in both scoring and total defense. The Cardinal's front seven in their 3-4 scheme appears to be particularly strong. Few teams in the nation will be as deep at linebacker, with Thomas and inside linebacker Shayne Skov both rating as potential All-Americans.
But what about that offense? The competition to replace Luck wasn't resolved this spring, with neither Josh Nunes nor Brett Nottingham demonstrating much consistency. And whoever wins the job won't have tackle Jonathan Martin protecting his blind side, or guard David DeCastro grinding defensive linemen into hamburger, or tight end Coby Fleener sprinting open down the middle with his 6-foot-6 self.
"We will continue our commitment to controlling the line of scrimmage," coordinator Pep Hamilton said. "We're going to run power. I don't see us changing much. If anything, if we have a few more opportunities to run power, we'll do that."
That means leaning on running back Stepfan Taylor, who has rushed for 2,770 yards and 27 TDs over the previous three seasons, and a deep stable of backs. That means leaning on a tight end combination -- Zach Ertz and Levine Toilolo -- that is as good as any in the nation, even without Fleener.
Receiver and offensive line? Those two spots remain questions, though the line will welcome back three starters.
Existing talent, however, doesn't tell the whole story of Stanford's potential for sustaining success. The incoming recruiting class is a significant chapter. Rivals ranked it fifth in the nation, Scout seventh and ESPN Recruiting 12th. No team in the nation came close to collecting as many elite offensive linemen: guard Joshua Garnett (Puyallup, Wash./Puyallup), Andrus Peat (Tempe, Ariz./Corona Del Sol) and offensive tackle Kyle Murphy (San Clemente, Calif./San Clemente).
[+] Enlarge
Kyle Terada/US Presswire Replacing Andrew Luck will challenge Stanford.
Kyle Terada/US Presswire Replacing Andrew Luck will challenge Stanford."There's a reason why we recruited a couple of big-timers at those positions," he said. "They will have an opportunity to play if not start at the left tackle position."
Instead of going away, Stanford may well have found a perfect formula that Harbaugh generated and Shaw has refined. Stanford has a lot to sell a certain type of athlete, one who is equal parts brains and brawn. Despite what many folks think about young athletes, there are plenty who want to challenge themselves intellectually before playing football on Sundays.
"This is a special place that attracts a certain kind of person," said Shaw, a former Stanford player himself. "The GPAs in this recruiting class are high, even positions where they are not always high. Our lowest receiver GPA is a 3.4. Not regular GPA, core GPA. These guys are good students and tough kids."
But how fast are they? A 3.4 is nice, but what about 4.4? The one thing that has held Stanford back is a lack of elite speed all over the field, particularly in the secondary and at receiver. Shaw said they "are getting closer" in terms of speed, but he also admitted that the Cardinal -- just like every other Pac-12 program -- have a bit of an Oregon problem. They are 23-1 versus everyone else over the past two seasons, outscoring those foes 1,024-405. Against the Ducks, Stanford is 0-2, outscored 105-61.
Does Stanford have an "Oregon problem?"
"That's a great question," Shaw said. "I'd like to have a survey on your website if anybody has some ideas. Chip [Kelly] does a phenomenal job."
While Shaw is said this in a good-humored way, it's clear that he and his coaches have spent plenty of time thinking about the Ducks. They recall beating them 51-42 in 2009, particularly how they handled the ebbs and flows of momentum. They know it's about preventing big plays and not wasting opportunities on offense. They know it's about tempo, a pitched battle of contrasting styles. Oregon wants to play fast and slash you. Stanford wants to slow things down and pound you.
At least one insider believes Stanford will sustain its recent run of success.
"Absolutely. Hopefully they do better than we did," Luck said. "I think there are a lot of great players here, starting at the top with the coaching staff. Great players, great recruiting classes. They will only continue to get better."
As for what Stanford will be in 2012, its first season of the post-Luck era, Shaw thinks his team will have the same tough-guy persona. But it'll be angrier.
"We're going to go right at people and hit them in the mouth," he said. "And it helps to feel like you're disrespected."
A gift for Luck: college teammate Fleener
April, 27, 2012
Apr 27
5:45
PM PT
By
Paul Kuharsky | ESPN.com
INDIANAPOLIS -- At an appearance at Lucas Oil Stadium this evening, Andrew Luck said people smarter than him would be deciding on whether Coby Fleener was the guy for the Colts at No. 34.
Fleener Those people, led by general manager Ryan Grigson, decided Luck’s Stanford teammate was, in fact, the right guy.
Fleener is the team’s second-round pick, and will be a prime target for Luck just as he was in college.
The Colts have a couple dependable receivers in Reggie Wayne and Austin Collie. Beyond that, they’ve got a reclamation project in Donnie Avery and a tight end who’s more a blocker than a receiver in Brody Eldridge.
Fleener is a giant get and fits perfectly with the idea of surrounding Luck with weapons who will maximize his chances at success.
I wasn’t alone in being surprised he made it out of the first round.
Now I expect the Colts will start to look for defenders as they have major holes at cornerback, defensive tackle and linebacker.
Fleener is the team’s second-round pick, and will be a prime target for Luck just as he was in college.
The Colts have a couple dependable receivers in Reggie Wayne and Austin Collie. Beyond that, they’ve got a reclamation project in Donnie Avery and a tight end who’s more a blocker than a receiver in Brody Eldridge.
Fleener is a giant get and fits perfectly with the idea of surrounding Luck with weapons who will maximize his chances at success.
I wasn’t alone in being surprised he made it out of the first round.
Now I expect the Colts will start to look for defenders as they have major holes at cornerback, defensive tackle and linebacker.
Pac-12 sends four to NFL in first round
April, 26, 2012
Apr 26
8:51
PM PT
By
Kevin Gemmell | ESPN.com
The inevitable is now official. Former Stanford quarterback Andrew Luck is an Indianapolis Colt.
Commissioner Roger Goodell had announced the 2012 NFL draft was open and Luck was on the phone with the Colts no more than 15 seconds later.
He got big hugs from head coach David Shaw and teammate Coby Fleener as he made his way to center stage.
"It was everything I thought it would be," Luck told ESPN's Suzy Kolber about the experience of being picked No. 1 overall. "I feel so blessed, so fortunate to be in this situation. I can't wait to start with the Colts."
And what can Indianapolis fans expect from Luck following a 2-14 season?
"Hope for the best," Luck said. "We'll come in and work hard. I know there are a lot of great guys in the locker room already. I feel so honored and so grateful to be able to represent this city now and be part of a team."
Luck becomes the fourth Stanford quarterback selected No. 1 overall, joining Bobby Garrett (1954), Jim Plunkett (1971) and John Elway (1983). Stanford is the only school that has produced four quarterbacks taken No. 1 overall.
Other Pac-12 players:
Commissioner Roger Goodell had announced the 2012 NFL draft was open and Luck was on the phone with the Colts no more than 15 seconds later.
[+] Enlarge
Jerry Lai/US PresswireAndrew Luck is the fourth Stanford quarterback to be selected No. 1 overall in the NFL draft.
Jerry Lai/US PresswireAndrew Luck is the fourth Stanford quarterback to be selected No. 1 overall in the NFL draft."It was everything I thought it would be," Luck told ESPN's Suzy Kolber about the experience of being picked No. 1 overall. "I feel so blessed, so fortunate to be in this situation. I can't wait to start with the Colts."
And what can Indianapolis fans expect from Luck following a 2-14 season?
"Hope for the best," Luck said. "We'll come in and work hard. I know there are a lot of great guys in the locker room already. I feel so honored and so grateful to be able to represent this city now and be part of a team."
Luck becomes the fourth Stanford quarterback selected No. 1 overall, joining Bobby Garrett (1954), Jim Plunkett (1971) and John Elway (1983). Stanford is the only school that has produced four quarterbacks taken No. 1 overall.
Other Pac-12 players:
- Despite a trade, the Minnesota Vikings still got the man they were targeting all along, USC offensive tackle Matt Kalil. Cleveland traded up to the No. 3 spot where the Browns took Alabama running back Trent Richardson. The 6-foot-6, 306-pound Kalil went to the Vikings with the No. 4 pick. He becomes the 76th first round draft pick in USC history and the 22nd USC Trojan offensive lineman drafted in the first round. He's the highest drafted USC lineman since Tony Boselli (1995, second overall).
- Then, there was a long, somewhat surprising lull for the conference. Stanford guard David DeCastro, whom most mock drafts had going in the teens, slipped down to No. 24 where the Pittsburgh Steelers got some pretty good value with the No. 1 guard in the draft. DeCastro was the third offensive lineman taken after Kalil and Iowa offensive tackle Riley Reiff, who went one pick earlier at No. 23 to the Detroit Lions.
- Between the picks of Kalil and DeCastro, there were 13 defensive players taken to just six offensive. That run on defense benefited USC defensive end Nick Perry, who was drafted by the Green Bay Packers at No. 28. He'll join former Trojan Clay Matthews in the Packers' 3-4 scheme. Perry was considered a first/second-round tweener but lands in a pretty good spot.
- With just those four being taken, Fleener and Stanford offensive tackle Jonathan Martin are still on the board. Both were considered potential first round picks -- but Martin's stock had been sliding over the last few weeks while Fleener's star was on the rise. Once thought to be a pipe dream a couple of weeks ago, might we see the Luck-to-Fleener connection in Indianapolis after all?
This story appears in the April 30, 2012 NFL draft issue of ESPN The Magazine. Subscribe today!
EVERY FOOTBALL PLAY tells a story. Many stories, actually: those of players, of teams, of the play itself, all intertwined like the wires in a messy circuit box. It's a scout's job to make sense of these stories, distilling them to distinguish the great players from those who only appear so, ultimately seeking to answer the multimillion-dollar question: If players' pasts are woven together, what's the story of each of their futures?
David Shaw, Stanford's coach, sits in his office on a sunny March afternoon with his own story. Shaw, the 39-year-old with a shiny head and a soft voice, spent nine seasons as an NFL assistant and then returned to his alma mater as offensive coordinator in 2007 before succeeding Jim Harbaugh last year. He helped develop, then inherited, what some consider the most talented college offense ever, one that produced 43 points per game last season.
The depth of that prolific offense has now created a historic opportunity. Never before have a quarterback, guard, tackle and tight end from the same college been selected in the first round of the NFL draft. On April 26, that may change. Cardinal right guard David DeCastro is considered the draft's nastiest offensive lineman; left tackle Jonathan Martin is 6-foot-6 and 312 pounds and runs like a tight end; tight end Coby Fleener, 6-6 and 247, runs like a wide receiver. And then there's that Andrew Luck guy.
Theirs is a singular story: seven combined first-team All-Pac-12 slots, three first- or second-team All-America selections and the legacy of turning Stanford from a 5-7 also-ran in 2008 to a back-to-back BCS bowl invitee. Still, years from now, their collective story will almost surely be one of unmet expectations. It's just the way these things go: Of the 15 Miami Hurricanes drafted in the first round from 2002 to '04, only three -- Ed Reed, Vince Wilfork and Andre Johnson -- became superstars. In 2006, five USC players, including Reggie Bush and Matt Leinart, came off the board in the first 45 picks. Combined Pro Bowls: zero.
You can view the complete story here.
EVERY FOOTBALL PLAY tells a story. Many stories, actually: those of players, of teams, of the play itself, all intertwined like the wires in a messy circuit box. It's a scout's job to make sense of these stories, distilling them to distinguish the great players from those who only appear so, ultimately seeking to answer the multimillion-dollar question: If players' pasts are woven together, what's the story of each of their futures?
David Shaw, Stanford's coach, sits in his office on a sunny March afternoon with his own story. Shaw, the 39-year-old with a shiny head and a soft voice, spent nine seasons as an NFL assistant and then returned to his alma mater as offensive coordinator in 2007 before succeeding Jim Harbaugh last year. He helped develop, then inherited, what some consider the most talented college offense ever, one that produced 43 points per game last season.
The depth of that prolific offense has now created a historic opportunity. Never before have a quarterback, guard, tackle and tight end from the same college been selected in the first round of the NFL draft. On April 26, that may change. Cardinal right guard David DeCastro is considered the draft's nastiest offensive lineman; left tackle Jonathan Martin is 6-foot-6 and 312 pounds and runs like a tight end; tight end Coby Fleener, 6-6 and 247, runs like a wide receiver. And then there's that Andrew Luck guy.
Theirs is a singular story: seven combined first-team All-Pac-12 slots, three first- or second-team All-America selections and the legacy of turning Stanford from a 5-7 also-ran in 2008 to a back-to-back BCS bowl invitee. Still, years from now, their collective story will almost surely be one of unmet expectations. It's just the way these things go: Of the 15 Miami Hurricanes drafted in the first round from 2002 to '04, only three -- Ed Reed, Vince Wilfork and Andre Johnson -- became superstars. In 2006, five USC players, including Reggie Bush and Matt Leinart, came off the board in the first 45 picks. Combined Pro Bowls: zero.
You can view the complete story here.
David Shaw has said many times that he was spoiled having Andrew Luck at quarterback. Now that Luck is gone, the Stanford head coach is getting back to his roots as a quarterbacks coach -- a position he held with two NFL teams.
Part of that means scaling back the playbook. With Luck, he could let his offensive imagination run wild. Now with a couple of quarterbacks with a total of zero college starts between them competing for the job, it's more about getting back to basics.
"It's really not frustrating, it's just coming back to reality," Shaw said, followed by a big laugh. "That's where I've been most of my career. That's where [offensive coordinator] Pep Hamilton has been for most of his career.
"I received a nice little shot from Lane Kiffin saying that his quarterback checks plays also -- which is great. That's what most good quarterbacks do. We just had a guy that was on a different level. Now we're just back to what is really the standard for college football. You have to have your quarterback get you out of bad plays and into good plays, which is what we're back to."
Shaw said he won't really know the identity of his offense until he settles the quarterback question -- and also plugs the hole at left tackle vacated by Jonathan Martin.
"At some point, we'll settle on a quarterback," Shaw said. "At some point, we'll settle on left tackle. It's hard to completely say who you are and what you're going to do until those places are settled."
In other post-spring news:
Part of that means scaling back the playbook. With Luck, he could let his offensive imagination run wild. Now with a couple of quarterbacks with a total of zero college starts between them competing for the job, it's more about getting back to basics.
"It's really not frustrating, it's just coming back to reality," Shaw said, followed by a big laugh. "That's where I've been most of my career. That's where [offensive coordinator] Pep Hamilton has been for most of his career.
"I received a nice little shot from Lane Kiffin saying that his quarterback checks plays also -- which is great. That's what most good quarterbacks do. We just had a guy that was on a different level. Now we're just back to what is really the standard for college football. You have to have your quarterback get you out of bad plays and into good plays, which is what we're back to."
Shaw said he won't really know the identity of his offense until he settles the quarterback question -- and also plugs the hole at left tackle vacated by Jonathan Martin.
[+] Enlarge
Cary Edmondson/US Presswire"You have to have your quarterback get you out of bad plays and into good plays," coach David Shaw said of Stanford post Andrew Luck.
Cary Edmondson/US Presswire"You have to have your quarterback get you out of bad plays and into good plays," coach David Shaw said of Stanford post Andrew Luck.In other post-spring news:
- Shaw said he's pleased with the progress of Kevin Danser and Khalil Wilkes at the right guard position -- though he wasn't ready to name a starter. When tackle Brendon Austin missed time, David Yankey moved from guard to left tackle and Danser and Wilkes played both guard spots.
- Just how deep is Stanford at linebacker? Well, Shaw was running off a list of names; Chase Thomas, James Vaughters, Shayne Skov, A.J. Tarpley, Kevin Anderson, Alex Debniak, Trent Murphy, Joe Hemschoot. Forgetting someone?
- Shaw also sang the praises of running back Ricky Seale, who had an outstanding spring session.
- With tight end Coby Fleener headed to the NFL, the Cardinal lose one-third of the Tree Amigos -- the vaunted tight end trio of Fleener, Zach Ertz and Levine Toilolo. Does that mean the Cardinal will move more toward the wide receivers being the primary receiving option?
"If nobody on campus takes that left tackle job or if one of the two younger guys [Andrus Peat and Kyle Murphy] isn't ready, we could kick Yankey out there and be solid at both guard spots as we groom those young tackles."
"What about Jarek Lancaster, coach?"
"Oh yeah, Jarek is playing great."
"OK, I didn't hear his name so I wanted to make sure he didn't transfer to Oregon or anything."
"No no. Please don't wish that upon me."
The moral of the anecdote is that Stanford is so deep at linebacker that Shaw forgot to mention the guy who led the Cardinal in tackles last season.
"We just played a spring game without our top three running backs and we found out that our fourth running back is good enough to start at a lot of places," Shaw said.
"I personally don't really care about one group getting the ball over another," Shaw said. "I tell these guys all the time that I don't care who actually plays. It's whoever shows they can consistently make plays. We could easily become a three-or-four wide receiver team if that's the best group of guys and the most consistent and making big plays. Or we could be a two-tight-end team. Or a one tight end team. The offense will be whatever the personnel allows us to be."
Happy Friday the 13th.
We're back-loaded by a couple of weeks on questions since we had to make sure all of the videos Ted Miller shot during his trip got posted, so apologies for not getting to some of these sooner.
To the questions:
Malcolm in San Jose, Calif., writes: Who were the biggest pro day winners and losers?
Kevin Gemmell: I wouldn't say there were any losers. Any time ESPN comes out and televises the pro day, everyone is a winner. Any time you can get representatives from every NFL team in one spot to showcase your team, it's a good thing. In terms of winners, I would say Coby Fleener was probably the biggest winner. He got to do everything he couldn't at the combine and he did it well. His 40 time was great. He showed outstanding athleticism in the assorted tests and drills and Andrew Luck put him in a position to show off his hops. I also thought Johnson Bademosi had a pretty good pro day. He looked the part physically and might have worked himself into the draft. And, of course, Luck was a winner. He got to show off his arm strength, mobility and pure athleticism. There is only so much you can show in shorts and a T-shirt, but some of the throws he was making -- particularly the ones when he was on the move -- were impressive.
Anderson in San Francisco writes: Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the people questioning Luck's arm strength? How's the crow taste after watching his 70-yard bomb?
Kevin Gemmell: Consider yourself corrected. But thanks.
Mike in Cupertino, Calif., writes: How many scholarships does Stanford have available for next year's signing? It seems like we've had a few years of 19-22 signees. With only 85 scholarships available and most players staying on campus for five years, how much play does David Shaw and the staff have? I've heard estimates of a class of about 15 being the max we can sign.
Kevin Gemmell: I talked to someone in the athletic department about this, and he essentially said it's a "fluid" number, meaning it's not a number they want to release publicly. But you can do some of the math on your own. There aren't many seniors on the 2012 roster. There will be attrition between now and next February. Guys leaving early, medical retirees or transfers and such equals more scholarships. But rough guess right now it's about half of the class they just signed.
Ally in Stanford, Calif., writes: Any word on whether Shayne Skov has recovered from his injury? How about from his DUI? Has the university issued a statement?
Kevin Gemmell: Skov is still rehabbing, and I would imagine that rehab will take him right up to fall camp. Those kind of knee injuries take a minimum of six months, but more likely nine or 10 months to really heal properly. And then there is the mental aspect. I'm pretty sure it won't be too much of an issue with Skov because he has a linebacker's mentality: Hit first, ask questions later. But he's going to need to get comfortable with full contact again and the first time he hits the ground awkwardly, it's going to be a shock to his system. I've seen some guys completely freak out and they never are quite the same players. But I don't think that will be the case with him. Regarding the DUI, Shaw said he wanted to wait until after spring to make an announcement so it wouldn't distract from the work on the field. Based on some conversations I've had, I wouldn't expect anything more than a two-game suspension, but one game seems likely.
Mark in Alameda, Calif., writes: Predictions for the spring game? Will the offense or defense rule?
Kevin Gemmell: Well, hearing Shaw talk about the defense, it seems like the offensive line is having all kinds of problems blocking the linebackers. I think there might be some coach speak there, because reports are that the running backs look pretty darn good also. I'm sure there will be highlights from both sides of the ball. But during spring games and fall scrimmages, the defense is usually further along than the offense. And when you factor in a quarterback competition vs. a very deep and experienced front seven, I'd expect the defense to come out on top.
Victor in Denver writes: Can you rank the running backs next year?
Kevin Gemmell: I think the only thing we can count on in terms of rankings is that Stepfan Taylor is the No. 1 back -- and with good reason. Behind him is a slew of opportunistic players. Ricky Sealeis making a name for himself during spring ball. I'm partial to Seale since I covered him for three years in high school. With the exception of Reggie Bush, whom I also covered during his prep days, I always said Seale had the best vision of any high school back I've ever seen. He would find the smallest holes, disappear and then re-appear 30 yards down the field. But he lacks the game experience of Tyler Gaffney and Anthony Wilkerson. And then we have to consider Barry Sanders and what role he could play next season. And Ryan Hewitt will probably see more short-yardage carries with departure of Jeremy Stewart. Hewitt was extremely reliable last year on anything less than three yards and we know how much Shaw and Pep Hamilton love to use the fullback. So I can't give you a solid answer on rankings. I just know they are really deep and really talented.
We're back-loaded by a couple of weeks on questions since we had to make sure all of the videos Ted Miller shot during his trip got posted, so apologies for not getting to some of these sooner.
To the questions:
Malcolm in San Jose, Calif., writes: Who were the biggest pro day winners and losers?
Kevin Gemmell: I wouldn't say there were any losers. Any time ESPN comes out and televises the pro day, everyone is a winner. Any time you can get representatives from every NFL team in one spot to showcase your team, it's a good thing. In terms of winners, I would say Coby Fleener was probably the biggest winner. He got to do everything he couldn't at the combine and he did it well. His 40 time was great. He showed outstanding athleticism in the assorted tests and drills and Andrew Luck put him in a position to show off his hops. I also thought Johnson Bademosi had a pretty good pro day. He looked the part physically and might have worked himself into the draft. And, of course, Luck was a winner. He got to show off his arm strength, mobility and pure athleticism. There is only so much you can show in shorts and a T-shirt, but some of the throws he was making -- particularly the ones when he was on the move -- were impressive.
Anderson in San Francisco writes: Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you one of the people questioning Luck's arm strength? How's the crow taste after watching his 70-yard bomb?
Kevin Gemmell: Consider yourself corrected. But thanks.
Mike in Cupertino, Calif., writes: How many scholarships does Stanford have available for next year's signing? It seems like we've had a few years of 19-22 signees. With only 85 scholarships available and most players staying on campus for five years, how much play does David Shaw and the staff have? I've heard estimates of a class of about 15 being the max we can sign.
Kevin Gemmell: I talked to someone in the athletic department about this, and he essentially said it's a "fluid" number, meaning it's not a number they want to release publicly. But you can do some of the math on your own. There aren't many seniors on the 2012 roster. There will be attrition between now and next February. Guys leaving early, medical retirees or transfers and such equals more scholarships. But rough guess right now it's about half of the class they just signed.
Ally in Stanford, Calif., writes: Any word on whether Shayne Skov has recovered from his injury? How about from his DUI? Has the university issued a statement?
Kevin Gemmell: Skov is still rehabbing, and I would imagine that rehab will take him right up to fall camp. Those kind of knee injuries take a minimum of six months, but more likely nine or 10 months to really heal properly. And then there is the mental aspect. I'm pretty sure it won't be too much of an issue with Skov because he has a linebacker's mentality: Hit first, ask questions later. But he's going to need to get comfortable with full contact again and the first time he hits the ground awkwardly, it's going to be a shock to his system. I've seen some guys completely freak out and they never are quite the same players. But I don't think that will be the case with him. Regarding the DUI, Shaw said he wanted to wait until after spring to make an announcement so it wouldn't distract from the work on the field. Based on some conversations I've had, I wouldn't expect anything more than a two-game suspension, but one game seems likely.
Mark in Alameda, Calif., writes: Predictions for the spring game? Will the offense or defense rule?
Kevin Gemmell: Well, hearing Shaw talk about the defense, it seems like the offensive line is having all kinds of problems blocking the linebackers. I think there might be some coach speak there, because reports are that the running backs look pretty darn good also. I'm sure there will be highlights from both sides of the ball. But during spring games and fall scrimmages, the defense is usually further along than the offense. And when you factor in a quarterback competition vs. a very deep and experienced front seven, I'd expect the defense to come out on top.
Victor in Denver writes: Can you rank the running backs next year?
Kevin Gemmell: I think the only thing we can count on in terms of rankings is that Stepfan Taylor is the No. 1 back -- and with good reason. Behind him is a slew of opportunistic players. Ricky Sealeis making a name for himself during spring ball. I'm partial to Seale since I covered him for three years in high school. With the exception of Reggie Bush, whom I also covered during his prep days, I always said Seale had the best vision of any high school back I've ever seen. He would find the smallest holes, disappear and then re-appear 30 yards down the field. But he lacks the game experience of Tyler Gaffney and Anthony Wilkerson. And then we have to consider Barry Sanders and what role he could play next season. And Ryan Hewitt will probably see more short-yardage carries with departure of Jeremy Stewart. Hewitt was extremely reliable last year on anything less than three yards and we know how much Shaw and Pep Hamilton love to use the fullback. So I can't give you a solid answer on rankings. I just know they are really deep and really talented.
Video: Sports Science with Coby Fleener
April, 13, 2012
Apr 13
8:00
AM PT
By ESPN.com staff | ESPN.com
John Brenkus and the Sport Science team test Coby Fleener's power and leaping ability.
The current number is six. That is six Pac-12 players projected to go in the first round of the NFL draft, according to Mel Kiper's latest mock draft
.
They are the usual six you'd expect; Andrew Luck, David DeCastro, Jonathan Martin and Coby Fleener from Stanford along with Matt Kalil and Nick Perry from USC. The last time a school from the conference had four players taken in the first round was USC in 2008 (see list below).
Oregon's LaMichael James is the lone Pac-12 player projected for the second round (this is Kiper's first swing at a two-round mock this season).
So is six for the first round good? Bad? Par for the course? As Ted Miller is so fond of saying, glad you asked.
Since 2000, the Pac-10 (since we're not including Colorado or Utah from previous drafts) has only had six or more players taken in the first round twice. There was the monster draft in 2003 where eight Pac-10 players were taken in the first round. And then in 2008, six players were taken.
Here's a look at the conference's first round picks since 2000:
So to answer the question, yes, six would be an impressive haul. Here's Kiper's latest Big Board
and his updated top 5 at each position
.
Todd McShay also offers his latest top 32
, which doesn't include Fleener.
They are the usual six you'd expect; Andrew Luck, David DeCastro, Jonathan Martin and Coby Fleener from Stanford along with Matt Kalil and Nick Perry from USC. The last time a school from the conference had four players taken in the first round was USC in 2008 (see list below).
Oregon's LaMichael James is the lone Pac-12 player projected for the second round (this is Kiper's first swing at a two-round mock this season).
So is six for the first round good? Bad? Par for the course? As Ted Miller is so fond of saying, glad you asked.
Since 2000, the Pac-10 (since we're not including Colorado or Utah from previous drafts) has only had six or more players taken in the first round twice. There was the monster draft in 2003 where eight Pac-10 players were taken in the first round. And then in 2008, six players were taken.
Here's a look at the conference's first round picks since 2000:
- 2011 (3): Jake Locker (Washington, No. 8 overall); Tyron Smith (USC, No. 9); Cameron Jordan (Cal, No. 24)
- 2010 (2): Tyson Alualu (Cal, No. 10); Jahvid Best (Cal, No. 30)
- 2009 (4): Mark Sanchez (USC, No. 5); Brian Cushing (USC, No. 15); Alex Mack (Cal, No. 21); Clay Matthews (USC, No. 26)
- 2008 (6): Sedrick Ellis (USC, No. 7); Keith Rivers (USC, No. 9); Jonathan Stewart (Oregon, No. 13); Sam Baker (USC, No. 21); Antoine Cason (Arizona, No. 27); Lawrence Jackson (USC, No. 28)
- 2007 (1): Marshawn Lynch (Cal, No. 12)
- 2006 (4): Reggie Bush (USC, No. 2); Matt Leinart (USC, No. 10); Haloti Ngata (Oregon, No. 12); Marcedes Lewis (UCLA, No. 28)
- 2005 (3): Mike Williams (USC, No. 10); Aaron Rodgers (Cal, No. 24); Mike Patterson (USC, No. 31)
- 2004 (3): Reggie Williams (Washington, No. 9); Kenechi Udeze (USC, No. 20); Steven Jackson (Oregon State, No. 24)
- 2003 (8): Carson Palmer (USC, No. 1); Terrell Suggs (Arizona State, No. 10); Marcus Trufant (Washington State, No. 11); Troy Polamalu (USC, No. 16); Kyle Boller (Cal, No. 19); Kwame Harris (Stanford, No. 26); Nick Barnett (Oregon State, No. 29); Nnamdi Asomugha (Cal, No. 31)
- 2002 (4, also the first year with 32 picks): Joey Harrington (Oregon, No. 3); Levi Jones (Arizona State, No. 10); Jerramy Stevens (Washington, No. 28); Robert Thomas (UCLA, No. 31)
- 2001 (4): Andre Carter (Cal, No. 7); Adam Archuleta (Arizona State, No. 20); Freddie Mitchell (UCLA, No. 25); Todd Heap (Arizona State, No. 31)
- 2000 (4): Deltha O'Neal (Cal, No. 15); Erik Flowers (Arizona State, No. 26); R.Jay Soward (USC, No. 29); Trung Canidate (Arizona, No. 31).
So to answer the question, yes, six would be an impressive haul. Here's Kiper's latest Big Board
Todd McShay also offers his latest top 32
The last pass Andrew Luck ever threw to Coby Fleener (at least for public consumption) was a high ball in the corner of the end zone during Stanford's pro day. Luck intentionally tossed it high so the 6-foot-6 tight end could show off his range as a dangerous red-zone target for the scouts.
The two will probably never hook up again. Right?
Not if you believe Todd McShay's latest mock draft
-- which has Luck going No. 1 overall to the Indianapolis Colts and Fleener going No. 34 overall to ... wait for it... the Indianapolis Colts.
Can you just hear the call:
OK, maybe that's taking it a bit too far. But the Luck-to-Fleener prospect for years to come has to get folks in Indianapolis -- and a nation full of Stanford alumni -- absolutely giddy. But if I had a crisp $1 bill to bet, I'd wager that Fleener doesn't make it out of the first round.
Of course, sandwiched in between those two picks are guard David DeCastro (No. 17 to Cincinnati) and tackle Jonathan Martin (No. 19 to Chicago).
But rankings don't always go hand-in-hand with team's needs. McShay has all four Stanford players ranked in his top 32
. DeCastro and Fleener are ranked higher than their projected draft position while Martin is ranked lower than his projected draft position. Luck is pretty much crazy-glued at No. 1.
Fleener also made an appearance this week on Mel Kiper's Big Board
based on an outstanding showing at the pro day.
Rounding out this week's projection links is Kiper's top-five ranking at each position
.
The two will probably never hook up again. Right?
Not if you believe Todd McShay's latest mock draft
Can you just hear the call:
Jim Nantz: Second-and-10 at the Texans 18-yard line. Luck out of the shotgun, rolling to his left, pump-fakes once and fires across his body ... he's got Fleener in the corner of the end zone. Touchdown Colts! That was a rope.
Phil Simms: Wow, Jim. Great throw. Power and accuracy.
Nantz: Say, Phil. Wasn't arm strength the big issue with Luck coming out of Stanford?
Simms: (inaudible mumbling)
Nantz: What's that Phil? I think something is wrong with your mic. We'll look into that. But great throw by Luck and great catch by Fleener.
OK, maybe that's taking it a bit too far. But the Luck-to-Fleener prospect for years to come has to get folks in Indianapolis -- and a nation full of Stanford alumni -- absolutely giddy. But if I had a crisp $1 bill to bet, I'd wager that Fleener doesn't make it out of the first round.
Of course, sandwiched in between those two picks are guard David DeCastro (No. 17 to Cincinnati) and tackle Jonathan Martin (No. 19 to Chicago).
But rankings don't always go hand-in-hand with team's needs. McShay has all four Stanford players ranked in his top 32
Fleener also made an appearance this week on Mel Kiper's Big Board
After showing exceptional speed in the 40-yard dash plus great leaping ability, Fleener is now a size (6-foot-6, 247 pounds) and speed combination that teams can imagine splitting out the way the Patriots have with Rob Gronkowski. It's a market hungry for matchup advantages at that position, and Fleener will benefit.
Rounding out this week's projection links is Kiper's top-five ranking at each position
Luck makes pro day about his teammates
March, 23, 2012
Mar 23
8:00
AM PT
By
Kevin Gemmell | ESPN.com

It was vintage Andrew Luck. Big smile. Precision accuracy. And, as usual, doing what he can to make his teammates look good.
Following his Cirque de Pro Day yesterday on the Stanford campus, Luck was asked if there was one particular pass out of his 50 that he was most proud of. He could have picked one of the passes where he rolled to his left and threw across his body -- a difficult task even in shorts and a T-shirt. Or he could have gone with the 70-yard bomb on his final toss of the day. After all, hasn't that been the knock against Luck all along? No arm strength?
He could have singled out that throw as the cherry on his told-ya-so sundae -- the index finger over his lips followed by a symbolic "shhhhh."
But that's not Luck's style. He picked the pass just prior that, a 20-yard fade to Coby Fleener -- intentionally thrown high to make the 6-foot-6 tight end up go up for it.
"I wanted to give him a chance to jump up there and show off his hops and his stretch and show what he can do in the red zone," Luck said. "I’m secretly very proud of putting it in the right spot for him."
[+] Enlarge
Jason O. Watson/US PresswireAndrew Luck's Stanford teammates got to showcase themselves in front of a hoard of NFL scouts on hand to see the quarterback, bottom right.
Jason O. Watson/US PresswireAndrew Luck's Stanford teammates got to showcase themselves in front of a hoard of NFL scouts on hand to see the quarterback, bottom right.Luck could have gone 10-for-50 and still would probably be the top pick in next month's NFL draft. Instead, he went 46-for-50. Three of those were dropped (sound familiar, Stanford fans?). Luck couldn't really do much with his pro day other than feed a starving media and hush a critic or two.
It was really about the other guys participating. Offensive linemen Jonathan Martin and David DeCastro are both expected to be taken in the first round and Fleener is regarded as the top tight end in the draft. But because Andrew Luck is Andrew Luck, some of his former teammates not expected to be drafted on the first day had the benefit of working out in front of every NFL team.
"That was a big focus for me," Luck said. "I'm in a unique position ... I have the chance to be drafted really high. So maybe a pro day is not going to hurt or help me as much as it could these other guys. I wanted to go out there and really showcase the strength of our receivers."
DeCastro is essentially a lock as the top interior lineman in the draft. But because Martin and Fleener didn't workout at February's NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis -- Martin because of illness and Fleener because of a high ankle sprain suffered in the Fiesta Bowl -- this was their first time to record measurables for scouts.
"We might have gotten guys drafted today," said Stanford's sports performance coordinator Shannon Turley told GoStanford.com. "And a few others may have locked up spots in the first round."
Fleener, who chopped his flowing locks and apparently now goes to DeCastro's barber, was appreciative of Luck going out of his way to make him look good.
“Andrew will be a great pro because of his brain and his hard work," Fleener said. "It seems like you can give him endless amounts of information and he can process it and then access and use it during a game. I think you guys saw during the combine that he has more tools than people give him credit for as far as his physical attributes.”
And looking to return the favor, Fleener had no problem taking a jab at those who criticized Luck's arm strength.
“Well, how far did he throw it at the end today?" asked Fleener, referring to the 70-yard ball. "I think he could probably throw it further than that. Maybe in fact his arm strength isn’t his weakness after all."


