Wow. Rough one last night. Let's talk about it.
No chat today? Too grief stricken?
Not even a loss like that would stop me from chatting with everybody. But seriously, that looked like the 2004 Chicago Bears. Remember that? The Bears finished 5-11 in Lovie's first year and the team allowed 66 sacks.
Hi Jeff;Where do I rank all time, in terms of FA busts?
Let me offer a little insight on Manumaleuna. He really is a good dude. But he was signed here to block, that's what he does. So far, he hasn't done a very good job. That's not to say that he can't or won't improve, because he built his NFL career around being an excellent blocker. The problem, in my opinion, is that Desmond Clark is a proven blocker who can still block. Why is he inactive? Because Jay Cutler threw a bad pass behind him in the endzone last week? C'mon. Why dress Aromashodu and not play him -- another mistake -- when you could keep Dez active and let him help you out in pass protection. The whole thing doesn't make much sense.
In your opinion who should keep their jobs on the O-line?
Jeff, at this point in the year, can you really find great offensive linemen just sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring? Logan Mankins would cost money and draft picks; I don't know if the Bears are willing to part with either at this point. The line should have been addressed in the offseason, either via the draft or free agency. Maybe if Chris Williams comes back this week it will help, but who knows given how he played in the preseason. There is really no quick fix for the line. The Bears can't bench everybody, unless you want a line of Edwin Williams, J'Marcus Webb, James Marten, Johan Asiata and some other kid off the practice squad. The Bears options appear limited.
When do we find out the health status of one Jay Cutler
No doubt the Bears will try and keep this one close to the vest. It just depends how Cutler checks out later in the week. Given the sensative nature of concussions in the NFL -- remember, Hunter Hillenmeyer was placed on IR due to a concussion -- the Bears will probably feel pressure to play it safe. But Cutler has never missed a game because of an injury. He'll probably push to play. Just a guess.
Fellas,Caleb Hanie's shoulder is obviously better now.. why didnt the bears put him in as the #2 instead of Collins? And obviously depending on Cutler/Collins status's by Friday, but is it safe to say that Caleb will get the start at Carolina? I have a lot of faith in that kid. Think we can win with him.
Aaron, if Cutler is out Sunday in Carolina, I would absolutely start Caleb Hanie. No offense to Todd Collins, but Hanie is a smarter choice to play behind a suspect offensive line, because Hanie is a good scrambler. He's in his third year in the league, and I know he's be able to start an NFL game. But because the Bears are paying Todd Collins more money, he may be the guy versus the Panthers. But if it were up to me -- and it's not -- Caleb starts if Cutler is inactive.
why didn't love or tice make an adjustment... it was torture to watch while Jay finally gave up. You could see it in his eyes
Larry, I think they did make adjustments. They just didn't work.
When will Martz commit to the running game? Isn't running the ball three times for 4 yards then punting better than getting your three QBs killed?
He better be ready to commit this Sunday. Because if the Bears are forced to start either Collins or Hanie, they must be able to run the ball.
I noticed Cutler was setting up with a wide stance. Was this causing him trouble with his mobility? He had the mobility of a dead corpse. It was like the Giants were ruching Bernie from a Weekend at bernies. Yes, a dead corpse.
I just got home from New York, so I haven't had a chance yet to watch the game again, but from my vantage point last night, Cutler's mechanics looked terrible. Anybody else notice he kept slipping because he was set up too wide. I realize getting killed by defenders every play will hurt a QBs mechanics, but when Cutler goes in the tank, he really goes in the tank. Story of his career.
Why did the Bears cut Beekman? Even before our o-line was exposed, Garza and Kruetz aren't getting any younger. I thought Beekman was decent, and have no idea about Asiata or E. Williams.
Beekman had a bad camp and was too small for Mike Tice. I like Beekman, but I don't know if he could have helped last night.
Guess Who??!! Matt Forte. Don't we need to see him integrated into this offense more? He didn't get nearly enough touches - 12 carries and 2 passes. C'mon Martz, Le't keep it fun! Smile.
Good call Ricky. I checked out a stat from the ESPN research department that showed how Forte's touches and targets have dramatically decreased since Week 1. I have no idea why Martz isn't getting him the ball. Maybe if he was available after games we could ask him.
Jeff,Why in the world did the Bears not do the quick slant passes and quick screens to counteract the NY blitz's? It seemed that the coaching staff made no adjustments like they did in Dallas. I am still sick to my stomach after watching this game
Because Brian, the Giants really weren't blitzing. Isn't that sad?! Seriously, almost all their pressure was generated by their front four. The linebackers were able to sit back and take away those check down throws. The NY front four kicked the Bears rear end.
JD, why was Angelo's top priority not to totally revamp the O line this offseason.... They were avg at best last year.... What did he see last season to think this group could really function with Martz os the OC
They spent all their $$$ on Peppers (great), Taylor (good) and Manumaleuna (oh boy). Plus, I'm not sure how many great OL names were out there in free agency. So I can't kill Angelo for that. But.....it all goes back to the Bears inability/unwillingness to draft offensive linemen. That's why the Bears are in this current situation up front.
do you see any changes in the coaching staff or the front office in the offseason ?
I know it was bad last night, but the Bears are still 3-1 with a bunch of mediocre/below average teams coming up on the schedule. Let's see how this all plays out before we go back to talking about everybody being fired.
Cutler seemed lost and had no vision. Is this coaching or both? He had the vision of a corpse, and the mobility of a frozen burrito.
I mean, he was hit on almost every play. He could've been messed up in the head long before the Bears pulled him out at halftime. We need to dig further into this one.
Who takes the blame for yesterday's debacle? Mike Martz for the play calling, Cutler for not getting rid of the ball fast enough, or the does the entire blame fall on the O Line? Thanks....
I'll take all of the above. But those offensive linemen were the only ones to stand up in the locker room last night and take the blame. I understand Cutler was in a fog, but where is Martz?!
Some stations were reporting on whether Jays diabetes played any part in his performance. Some say he was looking a little glassy eyed during the first quarter.
I have no idea how you prove that. I know the Bears trainers responsible for checking Cutler's blood sugar levels during games, and those guys do a great job. They are always on top of it. So I can' give any validity to those claims without proof beyond Cutler looking glassy eyed. Heck, I was glassy eyed watching that debacle from the press box.
Is it time for Garza to go back to playing RG?
Garza was banged up last night. He wouldn't admit to it after the game, but I wonder if that played a part in his poor play.
Is this the real Bears or this just one of those games? I was there last night and it was hard to watch/take. Giants fans are pretty classless. 6 or so beer bottles came my way.
I had a female Giants fan walk right behind me when I was on TV before the game and chug a beer. Pretty funny. Unfortunately, we also have some clowns here in Chicago who attend Bears games. I guess that just comes with the territory. Sadly.
jeff, have the bears written off tommy harris?
No Leo, Harris was active last night and played quite a few snaps. Now, he only had one tackle, so it's not like he played great, but I do believe the Bears will keep trying to see if Harris has anything left.
2 are injured, 1 was cut, 1 has yet to be seen in uniform and the last 1 might start by virtue of complete ineptitude. I'm talking about the bears 2010 draft picks. Time for a little better evaluation maybe? How is the deepest need addressed in only the 7th round of the draft?
I know, Rob. It's bad. And how about Marcus Harrison. Another third round pick, inactive three of the four games. What is going on there??!!
It might seem redundant but, were we really that bad or did we just not take the giants serious because of there recent play?
I think both teams played poorly. Did you see the NY special teams? Awful. And their offensive stunk until the very end. Just shows the NFC is very mediocre. Very mediocre.
Hey JD, can we get a good O-line help for Greg Olson? It seems like he doesn't want to block and every time he touches the ball he will most likely fumble it.
Olsen actually blocked well in a few games this year, but last night, he looked like everybody else. Not very good.
Jeff do you think da bears need to go out and sign a true fullback to help in the running game?and whats your thoughts on garza to right guard and webb to the left?
Brian, Martz just doesn't use a true fullback. But use Desmond Clark, he knows how to block. That would be my advice. As for Webb, they have him at tackle, so it might be tough to ask a rookie 7th round pick to move from T to G midseason.
Thanks everybody. I'm going to turn it over to Jurko. Talk to you next week!
Thanks Jeff. Hey, it's Jurko here. If I were Jay Cutler last night, I would have been beating my head against the turf to get out of that game.
Any thought of making Olsen a WR? I know he's a decent TE, but his skills as a receiver outway his skills as a TE. Even if he a little slow for a WR, his size would be ideal for Cutler. And that would open a spot for Clark to play, and he is a pretty solid blocker and can catch well.
Really? How was your TE going down the middle last night? Ball intercepted because he can't outrun a linebacker and get to the middle. Cost Cutler an interception last week that was nullified by a penalty. This week it wasn't. Get off the Olsen train, it's heading toward nowhere.
When is management going to start having to take responsibility? It's gotten so out of hand since '06. Jerry Angelo has become toxic to this team. Our draft choices have been busts, not to mention the trading of players who go on to become stars (Cedric Benson anyone??). Enough is enough.
This OL would get the best GM fired. Who are these jamokes? Seven OTs were taken in the '08 draft. Chris Williams is the worst. What kind of hamstring pull is this, by the way? Two weeks, no tackle?
I think they need to look at maybe trading someone (maybe like Tommie Harris) for an offensive tackle, only in week 4 and this line is a mess!
You couldn't trade Tommie Harris for a loaf of Wonder Bread. Every team in the league sees his films. He's got no explosion, and no moves. What once made him special is gone.
Why didnt Martz go to the 3 step drop with cutler like they did with Hanie?
What percentage of your offense is left? With Jay in the game, there was hope of still winning. With Hanie in the game, you're playing out the string.
why didn't we see the wildcat formation last night.. especially as quarterbacks were going down left and right. I would think that would've been a perfect time to mix things up seeing as how nothing was working.
You saw Hester in the backfield catching a swing pass. And just throwing stuff against the wall to see if it works doesn't do anything. There was a plan of attack yesterday that was poorly executed by the O-line. And Manumaleuna, Olsen and Forte are all part of the disaster that was pass protection yesterday.
Sir Jurko. Seriously. Let me say this. This management team has consistently FAILED. I won't even comment on what I said when they showed Papa Bear's daughter. He must be rolling over in his grave since she's given the McCaskey family a meal ticket and power to run an inept business. Ted Phillips is a chump. Angelo just makes terrible personnel decisions. And Lovie... let's not get into that right now. But the fact we didn't have focus on O-Line help and upgrades this offseason is a total joke. And the weekly active/inactive personnel decisions are mind bungling. And with all of that said, this team is 3-1. For the love of God...am I the only one frustrated with the constant ineptitude of management (owners to coaches) which in turn leads to inconsistencies on the field consistently ALL of the time?
Priority No. 1 for me today would be Marcus McNeil and Logan Mankins. But because you traded away the world for Jay Cutler, management has become ultra sensitive in trading away future draft choices. Draft choices are worth more now than they were a year ago. Cost certainty is what draft picks will be going forward and that's worth more than say an established OT, especially first-rounders.
What's your opinion of Forte's running ability? I think he might be the worst running running back in the league. The line play was bad, but I saw some holes for him to run through. Horrible cutback ability and ineptitude breaking tackles.
Forte is fine. Any RB behind this OL would look like a Schmo. Put Barry Sanders behind this OL and see how many yards he doesn't gain. At least Jerry Angelo knows what the worst part of this team is. He said it before training camp started.
Jurko,do you think ther is any possible quick fix to the bears line? or is it just a sink or swim thing at this point?
On one of the sacks given up yesterday, they had the DE triple-teamed. He beat Manumaluna, Forte was out of position and the tackle was late in recognizing. So I think the scheme was good, they recognized who the best pass rusher was, and they looked the Keystone Cops in execution. Cofield's sack, Olin Kreutz and Lance Louis were there on a double, he split them and sacked the QB. Tell me where the blame lies. They're just bad.Some games they're not so bad. This was bad.
Even if the Bears make the playoffs going 9-7, doesn't Angelo deserve to be relieved of his duties, considering how many bad draft picks he has made?
Your dilemma now is Jay Cutler has no faith in this OL. What type of game plan can be created to make up for the brutality of this OL. Even the defense got discouraged last night. For 2 1/2 quarters, they played their hearts out, only to have it wasted by the OL.
Jurko, last night we saw the O-Line hit rock bottom and worst of all its on tape for the rest of the NFL to break down. How much will last night's performance change John Fox's defensive approach to this Sunday's matchup with Carolina?
He's got his own concerns on offense. The coach knows that a lot of the Bears' woes were self-inflicted. John Fox is hoping there's an equal case of ineptitude next week that his players can take advantage. If anything he realizes he won't have to blitz.
Jurko, it's well known that Smith and Angelo are on very hot seats. Are McCarthy and Thompson in Green Bay safe? The Packers (unlike the Bears) were outplayed by the Lions, and their stubborn refusal to address the run game may cost the Pack a number of wins.
At least they've been willing to change on the fly. They jettisoned their tackles, admitted their mistakes and got the guys back. This tandem in Chicago doesn't believe it makes any mistakes, that everything they do is wonderful and they as a two-some can walk on water. I don't think so.
The O-Line has frightened me since the start of the preseason, but I get especially scared while on the replays I see just how bad Frank Omiyale is getting beat. Is there anything that can calm my fears?
Start cheering for a different team. When they watch the films today they're going to be disgusted. Teammates are going to see other teammates failing miserably, and it was equal across the board. Nobody escapes criticism today. When you watch on film, you can't escape or hide from it. The coaches will know. And your teammates know.
Could have used the 2nd highest passing yards after 4 weeks in nfl history! Kyle Orton!
Denver is looking for its replacement still now, that's why Brady Quinn and Tebow are there. And that is why they'll probably use a first-round pick on a QB next year. Kyle Orton is serviceable. Behind this OL, he would be dreadful. And at least we don't have to look at his awful neck beard.
Why am I so overhyped?
Because you're a Jerry Angelo creation. And your success validates Jerry Angelo as a GM. Problem is, Uncle Jerry won't be able to save his job, which means you'll proably be on your way out, too.
I am confused why we never made a move for marcus mcneil or mankins, I would give up next years 2nd in a heartbeat, 10 years out of an unknown player compared to the next 6 or 7 for a proven lt, seems easy to me
I'm with you. Draft choices mean nothing to me. Usually they're players who need to be coddled. And if Angelo is making these picks, I'd trade them all away.
I agree with Rob totally. Lovie's "red-shirting" of rookies is ridiculous. Time to see what Wootton can do. Mark Anderson is not the answer, Idonije is a rotational/depth guy.
They showed Mark Anderson on a run play yesterday, and he threw his shoulder into the blocker. I don't know much, but I know as a defensive lineman, you have to play with your hands, and your arms have to be extended if you're going to have the ability to shed a blocker. Mark did not. The Giants had a big gain. If you noticed in last night's game, one of the Giants' adjustments wasn't to double and go through and get the LBs, they went man on man up front, and whereever the slant went, the offensive lineman stayed with his guy. And the guys responsible for the LBs, realized that's all they had and Urlacher and Briggs were less effective because of it.
Why didn't they at least try and throw the quick slants ala what Favre has done for years to try and at least help the O Line out?
Slants are a part of this offense. I'm sure they were being run, but because our QB spent so much time on his butt, we didn't get a chance to get replays of it. Plus your WRs need to get inside the corner. It's an absolute must.
Its shameful to have let Alex Brown go and saddle Peppers with the least talented dline-mates of any premium edge rusher, like setting him up to fail
The Bears organization made a choice. Tommie Harris over Alex Brown. It was a miscalculation of Biblical proportions.
If you were Tice and Lovie, what would you do to improve the protection for Cutler?
Try to get my OL, TE and RB to actually block someone. If you don't have the ability to watch the game over again, maybe you can YouTube it, or go to NFL.com and watch some of the replays. There were 2-3 men assigned to some of the guys who got sacks, and the other guys never got a hand on the rusher. It was so bad I felt for Jay Cutler. And don't blame him for leaving the game. I don't think he had a concussion. But I would have pretended like I had one.
Is Logan Mankins out of the question?
No, he's not out of the question. But they have to be willing to part with draft choices.
i know commentators like to bash Cutler incessantly -- nice of SI's peter king to roll out the 'orton is better than jay' item this morning, no? -- but shouldn't the media try to figure out if he had sustained a concussion earlier in the game before the go the 'it's all Cutler's fault' well once again? And why didn't the coaches catch this?
It's not Cutler's fault. I don't think he had a concussion. They got him out of there so he wouldn't have gotten killed. If you lose Todd Collins, who cares? His wife. His family. Sure. But not Bears fans.
The good thing is the D looked dominant. How would you rank our D?
I thought they were resilient. Kept us in the ballgame that the offense clearly had no interest in wanting to be a part of. I think late they broke down, because of fatigue and ultimately realizing that this OL is one of the poorest in NFL history.
Hopefully it gets better against Carolina. One way is if you have a triple-team on a guy, you actually block him. Peace-out.