Greetings Fight Freaks and welcome to the special RAD chat! Was a good fight on Showtime with Mares and Agbeko, despite all the low blows. We are going to the scorecards. We have a lot to discuss.
Here we go. Your scores: 113-113, 115-111 (twice) in favor of the winner & new bantamweight titlist (
Even Andrew Golotta would say that was a ton of low blows
Wow. That was bad.
Please, call me 'Young Golota'.
Can a governing body make this fight a no contest when a referee is negligent with so many low blows?
I dont think so. ALl it could do is perhaps order a rematch.
This just in: Andrew Golota is making a comeback to the heavyweight division, but will only fight when Russell Mora is the ref.
Russell Mora should be suspended indefinitely!
Agbeko deserves a rematch
Can't disagree, but I doubt we will see it.
OWWWWW ... where was the point deduction???!!!
Dude go soak yourself in a cold bath.
Someone tell Mares there's a difference between getting your head pulled down while throwing a punch and it going low and throwing low blows while your head is being pulled down.
Agreed. I cannot believe what I just saw. AT LEAST 15 low blows and NOTHING called.
Agbeko was outhustled early ... would have been nice to see him lose fair and square though
You're right. Came on at the end. I still thought Abner won the fight, but if Mora had done his job and taken two points and not called a BS knockdown this is a different outcome most likely.
It's not just poor officiating from Mora, he is CONSISTENTLY putting fighters in danger. Remember him trying to let Montiel continue after being destroyed by Donaire? Ridiculous.
Very good point.
DanoWow the referee was terrible. Have you ever seen a worse performance by an official?
I am trying think of one and off the top of my head I can't.
Can we request more Steve Smoger and Kenny Bayless for all HBO/Showtime fights?
There are plenty of good referees. Russell Mora on this night was not one of them.
Bravo to Jim Gray for drilling Mora for all the lowblows. What a disgrace Dan.
Big props to Jim Gray for that interview. That said, have to also give Mora credit for doing the interview when he didn't have to.
In the press conference, Abner Mares has just called out Nonito Donaire's testicles
Pay the man, Shirley!
Great comment by Tarver - Gil Clancy would tell his fighter to go hit his opponent with a hard low blow if the ref isn't calling it. Reminds me of Hatton's fighter with Kosta when he took a low shot and came back with one as hard as he could in the jewels.
I guess it ain't cheatin' if they don't call it.
I normally get annoyed with Jim Gray's questions before and after Showtime fights, but the way he went after Russell Mora tonight was completely justified.
It looks criminal but this is sheer incompetence by the referee. Everyone loses tonight (Abeko, Mares and boxing fans). Just an absolute farce. I thought Al Bernstein was goling to lose his mind when the ref called a knockdown on the low blow. :)
Al is VERY reserved when it comes to being critical of officials but even he could not contain himself tonight so you know it was bad.
That was damaging for boxing my wife who has only seen like three fights asked me if the ref was cheating. Not good
Was kind of impressive that Agbeko could gain strength late considering how much those low blows take out of a guy.
You know Agbeko could have helped himself if he had complained a little bit more. He really didn't make a big deal out of it. And he didn't go low back, which he should have done if the ref wouldn't call a low blow.
I'm surprised Agbeko never retaliated after the 20th low blow with one of his own
The ref in Abraham-Miranda I was worse than Mora but not by much.
Good call. That was Randy Neumann, who did a terrible job.
Mora will not he getting a Christmas card this year.
Um, yeah. Jim Gray gained my respect again... Didn't think much of him after that Pete Rose interview a few yrs back... But I love that he told Mora that he did his job terribly. Favorite Quote? "Well we can watch it again if you'd like!"
Dan - why don't you think there will be an immediate rematch? Mares should want it - his win is tainted
Just think Mares and Golden Boy will look in another direction. However, if Showtime wants a remath and it's worth it financially, maybe there will be one.
Would you make Donaire a heavy favorite over either of these two?
I would make Donaire the favorite over both Mares or Agbeko.
Gary Shaw emailed me from the show he is involved in Oklahoma to report that Allan Green won his fight by second-round knockout.
The ref turned what was supposed to be a great boxing match into an embarrassing sight for the sport... The IBF should strip him of tge title and declare Agbeko winner by disqualification!!!!!
That is your emotion speaking. That is not how it works.
what did you think of cintrons performance last night?
Not much at all. He got the win in a poor performance by both guys in a crappy fight. What the fight showed me is that neither guy is a serious contender at 154.
Mora should just do what that ref who screwed up the perfect game in baseball did: come out and admit to your mistakes. We will forgive you faster.
Can someone explain how you watch the video replay and still say it was on the belt line?
Best question of the night so far.
Mares, Jim Gray and Russell Mora are all trending on Twitter right now.
Props to the Showtime team for being prepared to undermine the result if their own tournament to call this what it was.
They called it like they saw it. That is what they are supposed to do.
Dan, If Mora had ruled correctly in the 11th rd, then it would have been a 10-8 Agbeko round, and we would have a draw. Is my math correct?
Or it could have been a 9-9 round. Honestly, I dont recall the round clear enough to say which way I would have had it.
I feel like we need a CM Punk promo to point out the ills in boxing.
Summer Slam on Sunday!!!!
i heard that mares snuck into agbeko's dressing room and kneed Agbeko in the balls can you confirm?
Do you think Agbeko's corner should have yelled at the ref more? I didn't notice them going after him until that horrible knockdown call in after the 11th.
Couldn't have hurt.
Props to Agbeko though, he's a tough SOB. He kept his composure right until the end, even though he was getting screwed big time.
Usually promoters have a say in who referees a fight. Who selected Mora?
Promoters have no say. They can give their opinion but ultimately it is up to only the Nevada State Athletic Commission in the case of any fight held in Nevada, like the one tonight.
I know I might be in the minority, but I still thought Mares had a great performance tonight. Mora's terrible job in the ring ruined everyone's night.
He fight well, especially early. But he also committed numerous fouls.
Do they make endswells for the groin area?
Oooh, wrestling references are on. Mares was more effective with the low blows than Ric Flair is. whooooooooooo!
What did you think about the knock down ruling in the 1st? The announcers seem to think it was as much a slip as anything.
It was a hybrid. There was definitely a left hand and also a slip. So I have no real issue with it being called a knockdown but it certainly could also have been ruled just a slip and I would have no issue with that either. Although the punch landed it seemed to me that the actual reason that Agbeko went down was from a slip not the punch.
I don't wanna take anything away from Mares... But I'd be lying if I said I didn't lose a bit of respect for him tonight... As for Mora? Let's just say if Donaire/Mares happens, he shouldn't be allowed in the same state.
How is it that it was so obviously bad yet nothing will be done about it. Just wondering?
I think you can take this to the bank -- you are not going to see Russell Mora in any Nevada main events for the forseeable future. The commission won't embarass him publicly, but it won't give him any top assignments either.
What's next for Abgeko?
Ice to the junk.
Gary Shaw reports that Kimbo Slice won his boxing debut via first-round knockout in 17 seconds.
even abner mares thinks agbeko showed a lot of balls tonight
Is Kermit Citron worthy of a top 10 ranging?
Not to me.
Dan i thought Smith won the fight last night 96-94. What did your scorecard look like?
I didn't score it on paper. Glad I didnt waste my time.
I'm trying to figure out an explanation aside from incompetence why Mora would not deduct a point for clear low blows. If you were Mora's defense attorney, what would you be saying?
What's up with Arreola? Is he fighting in September, just a month away and no word about it...
Arreola is off the card. Some of the money for the card dried up when Mexican network Televisa pulled out. Can't afford to put on Arreola AND Jhonny Gonzalez.
I'm a huge boxing fan, but this an absolute disgrace. It makes me question why I even follow this sport anymore... Something needs to be done about this.
What will the protest most like do? Suspend Mora, but it won't overturn the decision correct?
They can protest all the way. Knowing the history in Las Vegas (and virtually every other place) the decision is not going to be overturned (nor should it). Unless somebody fails a drug test, it's a W12 for Mares and, at least officially as far as the decision goes, that is the end of it. The IBF could order a rematch. Showtime could go to the promoters and offer to buy a rematch.
Is Tarver any closer to the HOF after he won the cruiserweight title? After all, Showtime always promoted him as "the future Hall of Famer, Antonio Tarver..." in his lt. heavyweight bouts....
He didn't win "the cruiserweight title." He won a junk fringe belt. Big win for him and congrats, but he is not cruiserweight champ. And he is a borderline HOFer at best. Certainly no lock.
IBF should declare this fight a no contest, vacate the title, and order a immediate rematch!!
IBF cannot declare a fight a no contest. Only the commission can change a result. It can order a rematch.
Gary Shaw reports that even though he lost to Kimbo Slice, Likar Ramos fought well for those 17 seconds
Donaire shouldnt even be in the conversation of fighting these guys Donaire is very talented and very big Donaire needs to fight at least at 122 to be in competitive fights
If he can make 118 and be the best in the world there then what's the problem? Not fault he's so good.
agbeko is not gonna be having kids anytime soon.
I think this fight gave Christian ideas for his No Holds Barred Match at Summerslam
Tarver has to beat Cunningham in order to be the true Cruiserweight champ, but that is not a money fight and Tarver would likely lose that bout.
There is no cruiserweight CHAMPION right now. There are some quality beltholders such as Cunningham and Huck.
Russell Mora is bringing the Cups to the labor day party.
Concerning Tarver's IBO title. I argue that the IBO's belt should be respected more than the other alphabet orgs because of their computerized rankings which are non-biased. It is not as good as the Ring belt but it is definitely not "junk".
I disagree. Computer rankings are as good as garbage in and garbage out. Take a look at the computer rankings someday and you will see how ridiculous many of the divisions are.
i wonder if mares speed bag setup is two blue balls
Pay the man, Shirley.
congrats to Russell Mora and Abner Mares!! They are the new IBF tag team champions!!!
LEGENDARY!!!!!!!!!!! PAY THE MAN DOUBLE, Shirley!
Russell Mora thought Bret Hart absolutely submitted to the sharpshooter in Montreal against Shawn Michaels
Mora your Fired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Looks like Oscar is passing the crazy juice around. What is the over/under on how many more GB employees will make stupid/classless tweets before the night is over?
Never underestimate them. Oscar's tweet was ridiculous and classless.
I ready to see Russell Mora and Abner Mares defend the tag titles versus Agbeko and Jim Gray!
It was hilarious but I cannot post that comment that just came into the queue from "Russell Mora's wife." Use your imagination.
Even though Tarver is not considered the champ his name plus Cunningham rankings equal a good fight for the divison and for Showtime
That I agree with. Good fight, but that still does not make Tarver a legit titlist.
Has Lou Dibella called yet screaming about the decision?
No, just going off on Twitter and probably drunk anyway.
Russell Mora clearly thought the USSR team beat the US in the 72' Olympics.
This chat queue is so loaded with hilarious stuff that I can't possibly post given contents, but hilarious. The Freaks are out tonight!
Jr Lightweight needs a four-man tournament. That division is a mess. Maybe Aoh, Uchiyama, Burns, and Broner.
That's the last division I would pick. The division is not very good and nobody would really care about those fights, at least here.
Tonight's fight was a low-blow version of the Solis/Lazarte fights.
At least nobody tried to bite anyone in the fight tonight like Lazarte, the dirtiest fighter in boxing, tried to bite Solis and also hit him behind the head probably 100 times. That referee was also a disgrace but he at least did take a point eventually.
Featherweight tourney--Salido-Lopez rematch and Gamboa-John, with the winners facing each other at 126?
Would love it. Won't happen, but would be great.
D$ - If Russell Mora was the referee for Tyson-Holyfield 2, he would've let Iron Mike eat Holyfield's head clean off before giving him a soft warning.
Dan, where will you be Sep 10? Great boxing that day, including Argenis Mendez Vs. Juan Carlos Salgado.
Likely in AC for Gamboa-Ponce De Leon.
Russell Mora scored it for Park Si-Hun at the 88 Olympics
is this richard schaefer twitter account? @richschaefer1
No, it is fake.
Why should the decision not be overturned, as you said earlier?
Because the decision was rendered by the judges based on what was called. It's like balls and strikes. They are judgement calls. Maybe they were wrong, but the officials are human. End of story. The result is not going to be overturned nor should it be.
If you missed the result, Michael Katsidis knocked out Michael Lozada in the third round Saturday in Australia.
Any updates on Cloud?
Nothing specific, but ignore that nonsense making the rounds about a possible Bute fight.
"It's like balls and strikes" - or in this case, Strikes to the balls.
D$ - Did you see the Camelo Perez KO from the TR card tonight? Pretty sick.
I did see it. I was watching that before the Showtime fight. Was a good knockout. Have not seen the full fight yet as it overlapped Showtime so I will watch on the DVR, but Teon Kennedy went down on a unanimous decision in an upset.
whats next for Sturm and Macklin? Rematch? If not who is next for both of them?
Macklin is headed for the US now that he has signed with Lou DiBella. They both say he will fight in the fall, probably November. Maybe on Epix. As for Sturm, TBA as far as I know.
Dan, do you know what could be next for "Mikey" Garcia?
Good chance he will be on Donaire's next undercard.
Is Gary Russell Jr. the goods or is it way to early to tell?
Too early to tell although he was a great amateur and has looked good in the pros so far. So he has all the potential, but he still has to prove himself against legitimate opponents.
If Hopkins loses to Dawnson is that it for him? If so, can it be assumed that Hopkins is one of the greatest fighters of his and era or any?
I would think at his age that if BHop loses (at least legitimately) than he would probably retire at that point. But I stopped trying to predict what BHop would do a long time ago.
Andrade/Brewer next week on FNF...Brewer is a stepup in competition, do you think he'll give Andrade a tough fight?
It is a step up. Grady is tough and experienced and coming off a great win against Fernando Guerrero. We will see if Andrade is for real.
Dantanna, What do you think? Mora was corrupt or just stupid? Or both?
I dont think he is corrupt or stupid. I think he had an absolutely horrendous night that badly impacted Agbeko.
Mares/Golota vs DX in an extreme rules match!!
I like it.
If Garcia fights on the Donaire undercard, would that fight likely be part of the HBO telecast or no?
That has not been determined.
OK, Dan, who's winning tomorrow... Orton or Christian?
I'm rooting for Christian big time!!!!
To bad this fight wasn't on HBO could have seen a glowing red 23 over Agbeko's nuts on the Punch Zone
Kimbo's KO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPpH_iqI5i8
Thanks. Great KO.
I had a lot more respect for Oscar before Twitter. It's not a good platform for everyone with an opinion.
Would Lampley have yelled out "Bang, Bang, Bang" every time Agbeko got hit in the gonads?
That Punch Zone comment is the best of the night, in my opinion.
Dan, do you think Mares' low punches were intentionally low, or do you think he was genuinely trying to work the body?
I don't think they were intentionally low but at some point you have to realize what you are doing.
Well the year of the upset continues..............Kennedy no longer has an 0. Since you have been covering boxing do you remember this many upsets ?
I didnt think that was that much of an upset.
To no one's shock, Oscar De La Hoya is accusing the Showtime commentators of betting on Agbeko on twitter. What a twit.
He's a sore winner.
I knew Abner was a little crazy but he went absolutley nuts tonight:-)
I was at FNF last night. What do you think of dangerous Danny Williams? Cheers to ESPN for a great night and come back soon!
Good knockout. I would say he's a prospect.
It seems Oscar went back and deleted that tweet about the commentators having money on Agbeko. People have been letting him have it on Twitter.
As they should have.
Dan Tanna. Saw that David Tua lost to Monte Barrett today, probably ending his run as any real threat. Is Tua the best fighter (in the recent era) to never win a "world" title?
Tua is finished and has been for awhile. I think he is probably one of the best fighters since the 1990s to never win a title. What is amazing is that he only ever got a single crack at a belt and it came against the best of the era for the real championship, Lennox Lewis. But you would have thought somewhere along the line he'd have fought for a trinket some other time. Never did.
With the lack of control he shows tweeting, Oscar seems like he could use a promoter/manager ironically.
Great piece on the punch that changed my life the other day. It would be cool if you got to meet George Heckley someday and tell him your story like you did Buddy McGirt. It would probably mean alot to him
Thanks. One of the boxing guys I know who read the column told me Heckley is still around the New England fight scene here and there and would mention it to him. I never met Heckley or talked to him when I covered that fight, but his blood on my notebook changed everything for me.
The umpire from the atlanta pitsburgh game called russel mora to congraulate him on a great job
can u believe ODLH (ur boy) tweeted that the Showtime commentators must've had money on Agbeko? u would think a former world champion and HOF fighter would have more respect for his sport than that, no matter who he promotes....
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, the Love Child. Just because.
NOTE: do not have Russel Mora on any of my fights
OK, Fight Freaks, thanks for the spirited post-fight chat. Hope you all enjoy the rest of your weekend. Talk to back at the usual time on Friday. Peace.