Hey guys....glad to be back in the saddle in the Friday chat. Crazy last 24 hours in the UFC. No sense tiptoeing around it, let's dive right in on your thoughts with Jones, Hendo, Sonnen, Vitor, et al. Let's get it rolling.
Is this really unprecedented, the cancellation of a card? It seems like this has happened before.
It's not entirely unprecedented, but as far as just nine days out from a fight it is. There have been cases where fight cards are made, like UFC 145 which was to be in Montreal in March. But that was cancelled well in advance. There was the Indy card that was supposed to happen that switch to Minneapolis, too, but that got redirected before it got promoted. This one was being advertized for a long time, and everybody was booked, all the media was traveling in, etc...for it to not happen makes for a big mess.
Realistically who gets the next shot after Belfort?
Depending on Dan Henderson's timetable for recovery, it could be him. If not, there will be some intrigues developing. One might be Glover Teixeira, who fights Rampage at UFC 153. Gustafsson could enter the picture. Machida will be hovering. In short...(I have no idea).
Any chance Vitor springs the upset at UFC 152?
Well, ye...no. No.
Hey Chuck, thanks for chatting. Opinions of Jon Jones aside, isn't better for the UFC to save fights like Sonnen v Jones or Silva v Jones for when they have proper time to promote them?
Yes, it's true. But in this case they were in a pinch and thought they had the cure-all with Sonnen. Bottom line is Sonnen isn't deserving of that title shot (yet), but he would have been the greatest Plan B to ever happen along. Jones quashed it, and here we are.
Who are some viable opponents for Frankie Edgar at 145?
I'd like to see him fight either Chad Mendes, Korean Zombie or Dustin Poirier. Any of those would make for fun fights before Aldo/Koch.
Once Lyoto declined, why did it go to Belfort and not back to Chael?
I think that Chael was the stopgap option, giving the pickle they were in. He was willing and available. But he does have a fight lined up for late DEC against Forrest Griffin, so the idea is probably to bring him up the proper way now.
This was not JJ fault. This is Clearly the UFC placing all their eggs in one basket. The under card is so weak and thats why 151 will not go on.
It is definitely a big part of the problem. This card originally had Josh Koscheck/Jake Ellenberger, which was a decent co-main event. When it became Jay Hieron/Ellenberger, it was essentially a boxing card where all interest was on the headliner. It came down like a house of cards when Hendo backed out with the knee.
Did the UFC have the chance to move the card to free tv, instead of cancelling it all together?
I am not sure of the particulars. That was my first though, that they might just make it a free event. But the card wasn't strong enough even for that (if you ask me) after Jones/Hendo.
After Dragon and Shogun turned down the 9/22 fight why was Sonnen not first in line to get to get it instead of Belfort...the 8 day excuse would no longer be relevant for Jones and I'm sure Sonnen would have been more than ready to accept it.
It's only because Sonnen was asked in the first place because he was available, willing and marketable. He fit the moment. In the longer run, he needs to earn the shot. He's 0-0 at 205 pounds, but he'd have filled in perfectly in a pinch.
what do u think about the belfort vs jones matchup recently announced?
My first thought was: What happened to Machida? It's been such a carousel of names that I can't keep up. I just hope that the fiasco isn't drawn out, where Belfort gets hurt or something like that. I guess I like Belfort/Jones better in some small way for the novelty, but Machida/Jones II looks more competitive.
Miragliotta misses a Vitor eyepoke and TKO's Bones...new LHW Champion of the World!!!!!! MARK MY WORDS
You are on record, Willis. (Don't worry. By the time it rolls around this will be long forgotten).
I feel like a kid on xmas day. I am taking my brother down to Minneapolis for UfC ON FX 5 for his 40th birthday. Thanks to Jonnys prima-donnaness we are getting some sweet added fights. But do you know if some other fights are getting bumped or am I looking at a possibe 12-15 fight card? Also, if you are there for it you can buy me those beers you owe me...
Yeah, Toronto and Minneapolis made off with all the spoils from this Vegas debacle. I am happy they are fortifying that Minny card, honestly, because it looked wear in its original draw up. If I make the trip to the Twin Cities, I'll get you those beers for missing the chats (though it was no fault of my own).
Over/under Broncos win nine games this year.
Chet, that's easy. Over. They will go 11-5 this year, win the AFC West and have a bye. This is in the tea leaves.
Do you think Jon Jones think he's bigger than the sport?
No, not really. But he is 25 years old and he's taking a lot of bumps publicly. I do think he has a lot of confidence, and probably a sense of grandeur/invincibility. Bottom line is, I doubt he knew the domino effect that would happen with him refusing to fight Sonnen.
Do you think Bones did some unrepariable damage with Dana by not accepting the fight with Sonnen? Keep up the good work!
Not at all. Dana and the UFC lost "s---loads of money" with the cancellation of UFC 151, but Jones is only part of that. It's so complicated...the first thing we want to do is find a culprit for this sort of thing. Dana made Greg Jackson and Jon Jones the bad guys. That's some of it (Jones' PR is tanking right now too) but the UFC is to blame.
My tea leaves says you will go 8-8 and Tebows Jets will come calling and throw a OT TD to win it in Denver in the first round.
So that's how it is, Aaron? Okay.
If Machida had agreed to fight on Sept. 1, would Jones have accepted? Seems like Jones is taking a lot of heat when Machida turned down 2 title shots. I can see a champ not wanting to take a risk, but how does a contender turn down a shot when you never know when the next will come?
If you read into Greg Jackson's comments in defending himself from White's attack, no...he would have refused Machida, too. It was the idea of having a different opponent with no notice. As for Machida, he is very similar I think to Jones. He wants to have a full camp to prepare for his fights.
Welcome back, Chuck! Now that Machida isn't fighting Bones, who should he get next? Hendo?
Good question. There's Rua. There's Hendo (when he's back). And I see some clamoring for a Machida/Sonnen match-up, which would be cool. But Sonnen is still fighting Griffin in DEC as far as I know.
Supposedly Anderson was going to step in and fight. Who was he going to fight?
Anybody other than Jones, from what I heard. I appreciate him offering up his services, but there's a part of me that wonders if he knew it was a risk-free suggestion. Who knows. What would have been funny is if he's offered, and the UFC had stuck him back in there with Chael at 205 pounds.
You think this whole thing will ruin Jones career? What do you expect his receptions to be like in Toronto?
No way, Jenn. He's going through a tough time right now, but in the cage he's been dynamite. So long as he continues to do that, the UFC's memory of this whole ordeal will be very short.
Busy day Chuck - Im reading the chat, whatcing golf and setting the intonation on my Telecaster...Would you ever refuse to help out your employer if they were in a jam?
Yes. But Jones is the champion, and he has the most to protect. Sonnen is a challenger with no real merit and everything to gain. The UFC is in a pinch and needs the help. It's tough. If the UFC were sponsoring me, and gave me every shot to be in the position of one of the brand names of the sport, I'd have taken the fight. But Jones is Jones, and his reasons for not taking it are easy to understand. Torn.
Machida wants to fight in Rio now. Who could he face?
Not sure. Most the top guys are taken right now. He might have to fight an up-and-comer if he wants on that card.
Do you think Jones has lost some respect with Anderson and we could finally see that match up?
It did occur to me, Zach. It was a little backhanded to come in and say "I will take a fight on short notice to keep the card alive" if Silva knew that Jones had declined and the card was in jeopardy. I don't know the order in which things happened, but sure, I could see there being a little peeve on Jones' end.
Jimmo v. Machida....make it happen!
@ Zach. Resptect lost or not, Anderson is scared of Bones and will not fight him.
Hey hey hey....
Hi chuck, who should/will replace Belfort in Rio in the fight against Belcher?
Chris Weidman, if he's not going to get a title shot.
You hear the report of Ken Shamrock knocking out a women at a shopping mall?
No, didn't hear that. Link?
With Jacare Souza's recent 41 second KO victory showcasing his improved striking in addition to his formidable submission arsenal, and the all Brazil vs USA main card, is there any better matchup for Alan Belcher at UFC 153, now that Vitor Belfort has moved in to fight Jon Jones?
Agree 100%, but I am not sure of the feasibility of plucking Jacare from Strikeforce to fight in the UFC. We have heard that (certain) fighters are off limits, but it's hard to figure out how stern that is. But I would love to see that fight. Souza looked fantastic in his last outing.
If Chris Weidman can't get the fight with Anderson that he wants, any chance he jumps to 205? Him vs Jones would be money.
He definitely walks around pretty heavy and could fight at 205, but my hunch is he'll fight another 185er and solidify his case for a fight with Silva. Interesting to see him volunteer to jump in against Jones, though. And in fact, that might have been the most intriguing possible match-up of any that were being contemplated.
Chuck, it's good that the Friday chat is back up and running. Here's my deal...I like Vitor Belfort, and always have, but this is NOT a good match-up for him. Bones will chew him up!
I don't disagree. Don't like the match-up for Belfort. I can't shake the image Silva knocking him out in the last title fight he had. Jones should be able to have his way in this one. Vegas agrees...the opening line was -1300 for Jones.
I have a hard time believing Silva would have took a fight. He doesn't even want to fight Weidman.
Could have been some safe posturing there, sure.
Back me up here Chuck! Tell the people it's everyone's fault except mine! Tell them the terrible under card had nothing to do with finding a new main event! Tell them I had nothing to do with the fact I didn't have another "just in case" LHW fight on the card. Tell them it wasn't my fault that I was relying on a 42 year old PED abuser to carry a card. Please tell them Chuck!
There, you can tell them yourself.
Dana was quick to point fingers, but how much of the blame do you put on Greg Jackson for the cancellation of the Jones card?
I have a hard time blaming Jackson here. He was dishing advice to his guy...the dude who's generating all the fanfare and money out there in ABQ. What burned Dana up was probably that Jones listened to Jackson above him.
Anyone else shocked that Urijah Faber didn't wind up w/ the title shot vs Jones?
Ha! Well, we don't know for sure whether or not a call was made by matchmakers to check his availability.
Machida has been talking about dropping down to 185 how about him for Belcher.
You might be onto something there, Aaron. Intriguing. Very intriguing.
Why are they keeping the Ellenberger/Hieron fight? I know Ellenberger is coming off a loss but Hieron isn't a very big fight for someone who isn't far off from the title hunt.
I guess just to facilitate things. Both guys had been training for each other, so postponing for a month is easier than scrapping it and reassembling with different pieces. I'm glad they did.
Didn't Scott Coker say that there wouldnt be anymore Strikeforce/UFC crossover fights after Cormier/Mir?
If he did, that's pretty declarative for Coker. Most things he's been sort of circling back to without ever getting back to. Bottom line is, I am not sure how far Coker's power goes in the Zuffa office.
I'm a little surprised Jones agreed to fight Belfort.
I don't think the UFC was in any mood to negotiate it. I think they said this is who you're fighting, and he said okay.
Chuck, if you were Jon Jones, what would you have done, knowing that the show would be cancelled if you say "no" to Sonnen?
I'd have fought Chael Sonnen. There's no way I would want all that bad publicity for saying no to a fight (and thus cancelling a card). And, if I'm Jon Jones, I'm thinking...I'll smash Sonnen.
With all these fighters reported to step up and fight main event to keep 151 alive (Weidman, Silva) dont u think ufc pull the plug to quick?
My question was, did they ask Belfort if he would fight on nine days notice? You'd have to think they exhausted every option before pulling the plug on a card like that. You'd have to think so. Right?
Greg Jackson vs Dana White for the main event
I've read that Jackson and Jones said they were not made aware that the event hung in the balance of them accepting Sonnen as an opponent.
Yeah, that's my understanding. If the UFC had made it clear that if they didn't accept the fight the whole card would blow away, maybe they'd have changed their mind.
From my perspective though, I've got no time to sell a fight with Sonnen, and if I lose to the guy who lost to Silva twice, there goes my super fight. If I win, I beat the guy who Silva beat twice who's moving up a weight class- either way, Sonnen is the hero who has everything to gain. Me rejecting this fight was pretty reasonable.
I wonder if this is the incidental Jon Jones on Twitter, the guy who had the same name and was getting all of Bones' hate mail?
You're not one of those people saying Rousey should be on a pound for pound list right? Just want to make sure I don't need to turn this chat off
She wouldn't be in my P4P list, no. She's only had nine professional fights, and has defended her title once. She's a long way from that discussion.
A little early, I know, but what do you think of that Shogun-Gustafsson fight? Can't wait for that next UFC on FOX card.
I love when Captain Howdy barges into this chat. I have to say, I like the fight. Rua seems to put on these epic battles of attrition of late, and Gustafsson is a statement away from a title shot. I think it'll be a good one. Early nod to Gusty.
You need to do something about that 3 am MMA Live timeslot. Where'd the love, I mean even midnight is MUCH better
Not my call, but I agree. Good thing there are DVRs available. I thought we had a good show with Josh Gross and Franklin McNeil, yet we taped before the news broke about UFC 151.
Id fight white and coker, name the time and place. (as long as one of my fighters isnt fighting then)
Chucky -- glad the chat is back up! Great article on Ronda Rousey. You think she'll end up the biggest female MMA star of all time?
She's certainly playing the part as of August 24, 2012. In fact, today she's in Bristol doing the old "car wash," hitting a lot of the ESPN platforms. Definitely think she's been great for not only women's MMA, but for the sport in general.
MMA LIVE is mid nite on the West Coast.
Glass half full.
Thanks for chatting Chuck. Do you believe that Bones is receiving too much vitriol for his decision? Though he did the UFC & the other fighters a huge disservice, the UFC threw him under the bus w/out acknowledging that the card lacked any depth (market saturation?) nor was there a contingency plan.
I think it's one of those situations where Dana White was fresh off the disappointing news, and went off on Jones/Jackson. It was strange to hear Dana White use the word "disgusting," but White isn't one to mask his emotions. He lost a card, and Jones could have saved it. He looked at it that way, rather than the depth issue you mention. He needed a favor from Jones, and Jones said no.
What division do you think the UFC will add next?
From the sounds of it, 115 pounds. I seriously doubt they will any time soon, though. Can you name even three good 115ers?
Btw... You're Area 151 headline was awesome. Props to you Sir
Thanks. The parallels were just too eerie and rich.
Could Shogun make it any clearer he wants no part of getting back in there with Jones? I mean he certainly didnt look disappointed when they gave the shot to Machid, and now he turns down title shot?
He doesn't seem overly eager to fight Jones again, does he?
Machida drops to middleweight to fight Belcher on the Brazil Card. Possible?
Somebody mentioned this earlier...and that's very interesting. Wouldn't be surprised to see this, unless the UFC is still promising a title shot to Machida after Jones/Belfort plays out.
Does the willingness of Silva to do a GSP fight at a catch weight change anything all that much? Or is this more hype that doesn't go anywhere. ie the last 2 years
I think they are sincere about wanting to do the GSP fight. Sounds like GSP and his camp are open to the idea, now, possibly at 178 pounds or 180. The UFC wants it. With all parties aboard, just need things to play out between Condit/GSP. If Condit wins, there goes that superfight.
Shocked Phil Davis wasn't asked to face Jones at 152. thoughts?
Not sure if he was contacted, or if he was even available. I do know that Josh Gross reached out to Eric Del Fierro to ask if the UFC was calling on any of his guys to step in for Hendo, and Del Fierro said no.
Why didn't the UFC offer Jones a HW fight? Even if he were to lose, the title would still be his and he can blame the size difference and not having the time to prepare for it.
I am not sure it would have mattered. I think when the UFC came up with Machida and Sonnen, they thought Jones would cooperate and take either to keep the main event intact. They guessed wrong, and that disappointment led to the outburst in that media call by White. Can't imagine them dangling a heavyweight would have produced any different results.
And another thing, Michael...Sonnen was gift-wrapped for the occasion. He's a 185-pounder who hadn't been training, with a skill set that Jones would match-up well against, who is marketable enough to fetch a big PPV. What better?
Too bad for Dan Henderson in all of this. Guy turned 42 years old today, and now he's on the shelf for another few months. Ouch.
It is sad, particularly considering that he has been waiting in the wings for this shot since November of last year. Now he's out the rest of 2012, and likely into late first quarter 2013. The landscape might be a lot different then, and a title shot won't be guaranteed.
When you're done Chuck, go check out what Marcellus Wiley just said on Sportsnation about Jones. He pretty much summed it up perfectly.
Paraphrase for me?
How come nobody is complaining about the dirtball move by Dana to throw him under the bus so completely and thoroughly? The media call was just classless on every level.
People are definitely talking about White's handling of the situation. Imagine if he'd just said "Henderson is hurt, and we haven't been able to successfully find a replacement for him to fight Jones. UFC 151 is off." In that case, even if the UFC were mad, Jones isn't taking the heat he's taking right now, and internally they could reprimand him as they saw fit.
Would you move gsp back up in the pfp rankings, becuase jones backed out of a fight with cheal ?
No. It's still Silva, Jones, GSP....that sort of thing shouldn't dictate these mythological rankings.
Now that you don't have to go to Vegas next week, you thinking about going to Vegas?
Haha. Yeah, I was looking forward to being out there. We had a nice crew from ESPN headed that way, so it's a shame we had to call it off. Going to Vegas anyway doesn't sound like a bad plan, though.
It's not just Dana ripping Jones, it's OTHER FIGHTERS as well.
Good point. If there's a reminder in any of this it's that nobody is off limits. White calls it as he sees it and deals in consequences later.
Am I the only one who would rather see Belfort get the shot over any other 205er? I'd like to see how JJ reacts to taking a clean right from Vitor.
You're not alone there. I've heard several people who like the idea of Belfort standing in with Jones. Can he land that big clean shot, though? We're in the same terrain we were in with Hendo, though the Greco-Roman stuff isn't in play, and Vitor won't be looking to see how Jones reacts off his back.
Yeah, but if Dana made that statement everyone would be mad at Dana and the UFC for cancelling the event. Can't have that!!
Crazy situation. Really just a strange day that just kept getting stranger, particularly as Sonnen was making the media rounds.
I've been hearing a lot about how jones screwed the fighters on the undercard, shouldn't we ask more about how the fighters deserve more from the UFC and how they pay there fighters it seems jones is scapegoat for everything wrong in MMA
If there's a silver lining to all of this, maybe that's it. Maybe people will pay a little more attention to the business end of the undercard, where neglect is the verb is motion.
Over/Under - 18 months until Chael fights Bones
The way things have been going, will say under.
how do u see the belfort/jones fight going? i see jones controlling range first rd then taking it to the ground for the finish in the second
Yeah, about the same. I see him pouring it on like he did with Rua. Second round TKO sounds about right.
Given the huge downside involved (opponent in new weight class coming off a loss on 8 day's notice and potentially wrecking the super-fight if he lost), what should Jones have been offered to take the fight with Sonnen? Half the gate? Seems to me Dana wouldn't have wanted to pay the amount it would have taken for it to have been a good deal for Jones.
I honestly don't think the decision had that much to do with the money. It was literally that they didn't want to switch gears with no notice and leave Jones vulnerable due to something like bad circumstances.
Put Chael in there w/ Gustaffson, Teixeira, Shogun, or Machida first - and he never makes it to Jones IMO.
What do you think about the fighter backlash that Jones was getting? The best ones were Bisbing's tweet about fighting Chael on 8 days notice and then Brennerman asking for the check from Jones.
I can understand it. I really can. My initial reaction was "why wouldn't Jones take that fight?" I still think he should have, mostly to avoid the PR disaster. But again, I'm not sure he realized when he turned it down that the whole card would fall. You'd have to think (given the lack of depth beneath him on UFC 151) that the possibility crossed his mind, though.
How bad does it look that everyone refuses to fight Jon Jones and that Vitor is taking this? Shogun AND Machida both said no.
It just means that Jones isn't the only finicky party in this bunch.
Chuck, glad to see you staying extra time. Did your bosses ask you to fill in time for a cancelled chat?
No, just got carried away talking about all this Jones/UFC 151 stuff.
You have to admit Greg Jacksons fighters have been boring; do you think his camp will decrease in numbers?
That "boring" tag is applicable to certain fighters. I think what bothers people is that exciting fighters (like Clay Guida) turn into something else with game plans. Will his numbers decrease? I don't know, but I would hope not. He's been a solid coach for a long time.
You got Benavides like everyone else or Mighty Mouse?
I do. Too much swagger (he'd tell you). Too many tools (I'd say).
Ditka would have accepted a Jones fight. Just sayin'
What do you think about Torres being released?
Came as a surprise, but not a total shock. I think he'll be back (again).
Alright guys, I had better close this down. I'm happy to have the Friday chat back up and running. Stop in here next week when things couldn't possibly be as dramatic. If I didn't get to your question, hit me on Twitter @ChuckMindenhall.